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Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

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Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#71

Post by dustingetz »

mandmandam wrote: post #69
dustingetz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

paragraph 2: please be concrete, this claim is interesting but completely unsubstantiated as currently stated

I don't know what reasonably substantiating such a claim would look like to you, but yeah, there's something to it. Think of it as game theory; or think of it like simple mob dynamics. Play Wolf or Mafia, and get an idea of how powerful information asymmetry can be. Look down stream at where our cobalt, our lithium, our chocolate comes from; what we've done to Africa and South America and indigenous people everywhere…

i’m with you, i’ve read some chomsky, but you are speaking in absolutes. It seems historically true that most, even all wealth has come from amoral means (especially relative to today’s values) but is it absolutely true, and absolutely true today, and in the future? What if means are relative to societal values in that time? For example, I eat chicken, though I feel like I ought not to, and in 100 years I’d be surprised if that is still acceptable to do.

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#72

Post by _sys49152 »

LOL. Go to genius.com. Pull up: Pras - Ghetto Superstar album. Ctrl-F "Dirty Cash"

Songs on that album that contain the phrase "Dirty Cash":

Blue Angels

Cant Stop the Shining Pt 2

Get Your Groove On

Frowsey Pt 2

For the Love of This

Dirty Cash (Instrumental, lol)

Yeah eh Yeah eh

Avenues

Another One Bites the Dust

It's a solid dope album though, great production values if you skip the filler interludes.

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#73

Post by mandmandam »

dustingetz wrote: post #71
mandmandam wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what reasonably substantiating such a claim would look like to you, but yeah, there's something to it. Think of it as game theory; or think of it like simple mob dynamics. Play Wolf or Mafia, and get an idea of how powerful information asymmetry can be. Look down stream at where our cobalt, our lithium, our chocolate comes from; what we've done to Africa and South America and indigenous people everywhere…

i’m with you, i’ve read some chomsky, but you are speaking in absolutes. It seems historically true that most, even all wealth has come from amoral means (especially relative to today’s values) but is it absolutely true, and absolutely true today, and in the future? What if means are relative to societal values in that time? For example, I eat chicken, though I feel like I ought not to, and in 100 years I’d be surpri…

> you are speaking in absolutes.

No I'm not. I said "there's something to it". I'm not OP, and I think OP could be understood to be speaking as "in the vast vast majority of cases" rather than an unbreakable now-and-forever rule. It's wise to interpret people in the most charitable reasonable light, generally.

> but is it absolutely true, and absolutely true today

If it's true in 99% of cases, or 100%, the difference is pretty small. Seems odd to focus on.

And we weren't discussing whether or not this would be true in a hundred years, but what the situation is now and historically. Certainly there is a potential for radical change; I would even call it necessary.

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#74

Post by shepherdjerred »

zusammen wrote: post #19
MrMcCall wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Nothing will ever be as funny as Holmes' deep voice, though. The fact that she conned so many people is really one of the greatest modern examples of just how effing stupid most people are, especially those with a fair bit of power and money. Carreyrou's book and pod are truly excellent.

I hated that voice. At first, I told myself it wasn’t right to hate someone’s voice so much because I assumed it had been something she couldn’t control, and in fact it made her slightly more impressive to me that she had gotten anywhere with such an uncharismatic voice. Then I found out that, no, she made it up. All fake. I have a cousin with two special needs children. When I was first told that people in Silicon V…

Did Holmes fake speech issues? I thought her voice was intentionally changes so that she sounded more assertive/less feminine

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#75

Post by MrMcCall »

scns wrote: post #70
MrMcCall wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand. Sadly, the level of despicable ethics goes far deeper than that, my friend. But I never hate, because hate is a poison to one's own soul, and must always be avoided. I do, however, feel a hot righteous anger at those that manipulate others for personal gain, especially when it's combined with callous disregard for their victims' well-being. I wish more people were like you, who have found reasons to gro…

Hassen macht hässllich ie hate makes you ugly.

Yes, absolutely, but it is every person's choice to become, should they (and their culture) wish.

It also damages our perceptual clarity. When Jesus said to "Love your enemies", there is a very pragmatic aspect to this beyond just trying to show them a better way. We can only see a person clearly if we love them; otherwise, we will see them through the lens of our prejudices, enmities, greed, ... whatever.

Selfless love also does not mean letting the Nazis of the world steamroll you and then proceed to dominate the next underpriviledged group. No, compassion demands that we protect the innocent, including ourselves. First, however, we must self-evolve ourselves back towards innocence by embracing universal -- but carefully watchful -- compassion.

It's a tricky business, being human :-)

But, wow, the wonders!

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#76

Post by water-data-dude »

portaouflop wrote: post #3

Celebrity and money are like a reality distortion field. I hope I never acquire either in large quantities - it does not seem like a desirable thing

I agree. I think it’s kind of like how we discovered that cheap, abundant, calorie dense foods aren’t good for people. Humans evolved in circumstances where we weren’t ever likely to have as much calorie dense food as we wanted, so we have wiring that tells us to eat as much as we can (which can hurt us).

I think the same is true of positive attention. We’re social creatures, that’s part of how we survive. In the past we wanted to be part of a group, and having status in a social hierarchy could be a matter of life or death. Now that there are billions of people, and social networks make it possible to interact with a LOT of them. Humans evolved in circumstances where we weren’t ever likely to have as much attention as we wanted, so our wiring tells us to glut ourselves on as much attention as we can, which can hurt us (obsession, narcissism, etc.).

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#77

Post by roughly »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #59
vintagedave wrote: post #6

I'm a little confused about what he actually did. The article mostly speaks about making connections and introducing people to each other. But: > The concierge then hands him an envelope with orders to circle the block twice before receiving further instructions. What was in that envelope?

> I'm a little confused about what he actually did. Launder money? That he deflects when the topic of money comes up is telling enough.

It’s noted a little obliquely in the article that he got paid an ungodly amount of money for his help - at one point, it’s mentioned he got paid $20m to set up a photo op with Obama; elsewhere they suggest $100m total received for his help. I think he deflects on money because it takes a whole lot of sympathy out of his sort of “gee shucks” presentation of all this.

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#78

Post by dustingetz »

mandmandam wrote: post #73
dustingetz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’m with you, i’ve read some chomsky, but you are speaking in absolutes. It seems historically true that most, even all wealth has come from amoral means (especially relative to today’s values) but is it absolutely true, and absolutely true today, and in the future? What if means are relative to societal values in that time? For example, I eat chicken, though I feel like I ought not to, and in 100 years I’d be surpri…

> you are speaking in absolutes. No I'm not. I said "there's something to it". I'm not OP, and I think OP could be understood to be speaking as "in the vast vast majority of cases" rather than an unbreakable now-and-forever rule. It's wise to interpret people in the most charitable reasonable light, generally. > but is it absolutely true, and absolutely true today If it's true in 99% of cases, or 100%, the difference…

> But there is a level of wealth and position where you ABSOLUTELY MUST participate in the most evil parts of society to stay where you are.

(emphasis added)

I’m a founder of a venture backed seed stage startup, as a missionary not mercenary founder i do not seek extraordinary wealth but my shareholders do and I have fiduciary duty as well as substantial ownership. I struggle to accept without clear demonstration that my mission’s success means I “ABSOLUTELY MUST participate in the most evil parts of society”. This is a very strong claim, I don’t think it applies to me!

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#79

Post by satori99 »

moomin wrote: post #34
MrMcCall wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celebrity can be used to create ripples in the ideation of the masses, however, but that's a hard row to hoe, and only a rare few have the wisdom or good intentions to know where to begin. As well, the forces that facilitate celebrity tend to promote those who fit this modern apotheosis of vapid desire. William Gibson, as usual, summed it up perfectly in Idoru: “[Slitscan's audience] is best visualized as a vicious,…

I watched Grace Hopper’s declassified talk recently and was struck by how often she was right on the money (not all the times, she was also way off on some things), but in a lot of things that sounded truly prescient, she was often emphasising that these things were already happening. A lot of prescience is just paying enough attention.

> A lot of prescience is just paying enough attention

Terry Gilliam said much the same thing when talking about making Brazil in the 1980s.

"People think I am a prophet and that Brazil described the world we’re living in now a few years ago. But we were living in that world then; people just weren’t paying attention the way they do now."

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/magazine/terry-gilliam-is...

Re: Fugees Founder Pras Michél Speaks Out: 'I Never Wanted to Be a Spy'

#80

Post by sangnoir »

roughly wrote: post #77
JKCalhoun wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a little confused about what he actually did. Launder money? That he deflects when the topic of money comes up is telling enough.

It’s noted a little obliquely in the article that he got paid an ungodly amount of money for his help - at one point, it’s mentioned he got paid $20m to set up a photo op with Obama; elsewhere they suggest $100m total received for his help. I think he deflects on money because it takes a whole lot of sympathy out of his sort of “gee shucks” presentation of all this.

A lot of people got lots of money or high-value gifts. Also curiously his advisor (handler?) worked for the US government - was he 100% moonlighting, or performing government-sanctioned activities? They are throwing the book at Pras because he refused to play ball with the plea bargain.
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