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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

cnn.com

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#71

Post by MichaelZuo »

stackskipton wrote: post #64
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read reams of rhetoric regarding relations with Russia rehashed as "don't poke the bear". No one ever seems to want to discuss what to do about the bear going around poking everyone else.

Those discussions are had all the time. One of downside of this bear is bear strapped with explosives that could kill us all if bear gets angry enough. Also, once you are 12 miles offshore, technically you are in international waters and thus cannot be stopped by any Navy except your own unless there is UN Sanctions. If NATO Countries decided to violate that, it obviously opens up massive can of worms that could impa…

That’s a good point, there’s no formal mechanism to punish any country that has ‘anchor accidents’ 12.1 nm offshore.

It’s probably not even a de jure crime, so what is there to punish on the record?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#72

Post by grapesodaaaaa »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #67
tetrisgm wrote: post #60

The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with. We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

[flagged]

> Maybe a strategic nuke on Kaliningrad if any provocation happens.

Surely you must be joking about a first-strike nuclear provocation or larger. I would think almost anything other than a border incursion could be dealt with in other ways.

Should Putin be held more accountable for his actions? Absolutely, but a nuclear response is not going to go well unless absolutely justified.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#74

Post by thinkingtoilet »

tetrisgm wrote: post #60

The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with. We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

I agree. Do you want to sign up and go fight in a war? Or should other people besides you die? It's easy to say it "needs to be dealt with" but it's not an easy thing to do.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#75

Post by georgeecollins »

meiraleal wrote: post #65
tetrisgm wrote: post #60

The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with. We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

[flagged]

The only time NATO has actually gotten involved in a conflict was in Afghanistan after 911. So no, it is not only because of Russia.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#76

Post by zelon88 »

It's just practice. Locate the cables, establish a means of damaging them, deploy the means as a test and a show of force.

The western economy is almost completely built using off-prem in Cloud PaaS environments. It should be pretty fun when WW3 starts and not a single hospital, school, laboratory, or factory can operate.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#78

Post by taneliv »

whythre wrote: post #19
toss1 wrote: post #5

Substantial Russian activity also near UK, raises concerns that Russia would cut off UK. [0] Russian ships ‘plotting sabotage in the North Sea’ [1] [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-undersea-... [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ships...

Do these nations not have navies? Can’t they tell the Russian non-combat ships (or pressure them) to get lost?

Who says they don't do that constantly, but missed it this time?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#79

Post by fffffffff4322 »

I do not support the war, or violence in general.

But EU & NATO ante engaged in a hybrid war with Russia.

- It actively supports a military which is engaged with Russian forces

- It has seized Russian financial assets

- I doubt that attacks on Russian infrastructure are perpetuated (planned & executed) just buy Ukrainian forces

I do not try to support any side by this statement. My point is that by any rational account is a “hybrid involvement”. EU & NATO are part of an active conflict.

This makes them targets for symmetrical actions — economic warfare by means of sabotage.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#80

Post by barryrandall »

Etheryte wrote: post #56

So to keep score, in the last year we've seen cables sabotaged between Finland and Germany, Lithuania and Sweden, Estonia and Sweden, Estonia and Finland. Any others I missed? You might say it's too early to call it sabotage, but the earliest two cable incidents were exactly the same, so it's hardly a coincidence at this point.

Russia warned that they were going to do this last week. I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that 1) this was sabotage and 2) it was Russia.
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