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How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

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Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#71

Post by pezezin »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #7
vr46 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this has gone a long way to make me feel better about not keeping up my Japanese language skills after university. My youthful deep reverence for Japan and its culture shifted into realpolitik as I learned more and more, and I think another watch of Fear And Trembling is in order…

I kinda want to go there and purchase a 10k house in a village and chill. It’s basically a place where you can retire. I know a bunch of white people who have already done this. Just like how Japan isn’t characterized fully by anime it’s not fully characterized by corporate culture either.

I actually live in the Japanese countryside, so let me tell you that there are two reasons why those houses are so cheap:

1. The construction quality of the average Japanese house is absolute garbage. Most likely you will need to demolish it and rebuild from scratch.

2. Outside of the big cities, Japan sucks hard. The average small city or village is just a bunch of big box stores and houses scattered everywhere. Many Japanese people want to move to the big cities just to enjoy proper services and some excitement in their lives. So if you move here I hope that you enjoy staying alone at home, because there is not much else to do.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#72

Post by goykasi »

Daz1 wrote: post #57

this is mostly fantastical nonsense. I go home at 6pm everyday. go outside at 6pm and you will see businesspeople everywhere also on the commute home. also it is nearly impossible to fire anyone in Japan for anything

That is my experience too. In my neighborhood, by 8pm, the streets are crawling with drunk salarymen (and women) stumbling out of izakayas on their way to a snack and/or karaoke -- 5 days per week. They clearly werent working overtime with how often I see them.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#73

Post by orthoxerox »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #11
infotainment wrote: post #2

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…

The US compensates for their lassiez-faire employment model with their gym memberships and other subscriptions, which are harder to get out of than Japanese companies.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#75

Post by WalterBright »

jayd16 wrote: post #24
croes wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call losing your source of income and maybe your health insurance no practical repercussions. I don’t know in which countries you worked but I didn’t have any problems getting out of a contract.

Inexplicably linking employment with healthcare seems unrelated to at-will employment.

The reason is explicable - health insurance paid by the employer is tax-deductible, while insurance paid by the employee is not. Therefore, employers include it as a way to increase total compensation at a lower cost.

The origin of the practice was in WW2, when Roosevelt froze wages. To attract more and better employees, the companies threw in health insurance as a way around the restrictions.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#76

Post by kirkules »

specproc wrote: post #68
jayd16 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inexplicably linking employment with healthcare seems unrelated to at-will employment.

I can spell it out, if it helps. In a country with exorbitant healthcare costs, it means that leaving your job means that you (and often your family) don't get healthcare.

I'm thinking you misinterpreted the comment you responded to? I read it as saying that you don't necessarily have to have employment linked healthcare just because you have at-will employment.

The "inexplicably" being a commentary on the wisdom/sanity/compassion of linking healthcare to employment, rather than a claim that the parent comment had made an inexplicable leap of logic

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#77

Post by rqtwteye »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #70
specproc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can spell it out, if it helps. In a country with exorbitant healthcare costs, it means that leaving your job means that you (and often your family) don't get healthcare.

COBRA?

That’s super expensive. ACA is often better but that may change now with the republicans having control of congress.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#78

Post by WalterBright »

tdeck wrote: post #61
Iulioh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your opinion is influenced by probability being a well off professional in a field where you can easily find another job, maybe phisical location is not even that important. Just an hypothesis. I prefer the "chains on both sides" approach for the society.

It's a false dichotomy anyway. There's no law of nature that says an employee being able to quit at a moment's notice means the company should be allowed to, for example, fire someone with no cause on the spot.

The asymmetry is an artificial distortion of the market, and like all such distortions, reduces overall productivity.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#79

Post by apelapan »

dopfk09320k wrote: post #43
jandrewrogers wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I don’t have any experience in Japan, I have no idea what the nuances are like there. I have a lot of experience in Europe, which echoed some of the themes raised.

Do you have examples ? I have never heard European people being sued for quitting either. The opposite of at-will employment is not that you can't quit. Just that employers can't suddenly fire you without repercussions.

The termination period in a Swedish employment contract certainly applies in both directions.

If you have three months notice period in your contract, your employer could sue for loss of income if you don't honour that notice period.

It usually doesn't happen that way, because it is a waste of everyone's time and money. But, if some employer feels the need to set an example the option is there.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#80

Post by Terr_ »

rukuu001 wrote: post #37
Culonavirus wrote: post #21

Funny seeing a post about these as that's what I was recently reminded of when reading this post: https://x.com/DOGE/status/1857076831104434289 ("80+ hours per week" ... what kind of a psycho even writes this down and puts it out there as if it was normal in any way...)

Reads like a job ad for the worst startup in the world: super high-IQ + small-government revolutionaries + 80+ hours per week + on unglamorous cost-cutting (salary TDB)

> unglamorous cost-cutting

If they ever decide "we will make it glamorous", be very afraid: Whatever destructive idiocy arises, the entertainment won't outweigh the harm.

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