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Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

myelectricsparks.com

71–80 of 188 posts

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#71

> Tesla has faced criticism in the past for the design of its manual release levers, which are considered poorly designed and unintuitively placed. These emergency measures require intimate knowledge of the car, something that may not be feasible in a panic situation. First, how is this remotely legal? Are there not safety standards to ensure adults can easily exit a vehicle on fire? Second, regardless of regulations…

The tolerance on many doors is such that even with a slight amount of damage, they are "physically" unable to open. The latch mechanism can get "jammed". Per the NTSB, they recommend that all electronic locks disengage in the case of an accident. Does Tesla follow this recommendation?

It's possible the vehicle was damaged in such a way that none of the door could open because of mechanical interferences.

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#72
post #60
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of cars have electronically controlled doors. It’s due to the frameless windows. Opening the door requires the windows to roll down slightly to avoid damage to the outer trim. The doors still have a mechanical release so there’s no cost savings involved. For the front door they’re right next to the electronic release. For the rear doors they’re hidden under the passenger door pocket. Edit: to everyone replying…

Most current BMWs with frameless windows still have mechanical door openings (e.g. BMW i4).

Indeed, my 2001 E46 BMW had this. It’s not complicated or new.

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#73
> This tragic incident has sparked a debate about the safety features of electric vehicles and the necessity for more intuitive emergency mechanisms.

Tesla is an ever-more-irritating case study in what happens when you throw out all the accumulated wisdom of an industry, dismissing them as aging dinosaurs, because you know code.

For most of the last century and change, cars have had some predictable behaviors. In the event of a total power loss (engine, electrical, etc), you can still steer the car, brake the car to a safe and controlled stop, and get out of the car. As far as I knew, these were basic certification requirements, once those things came around. You can't do a pure drive-by-wire system, because when (not if, when) things go badly wrong, you still need to be able to control the vehicle. This is why we have mechanical linkages between the steering wheel and the front wheels, hydraulic brakes that function without booster vacuum, mechanical door opening levers, etc.

In a panic situation, say, "car is on fire," people are not going to calmly consider how to remove bits of carpet and access the emergency release mechanism they don't know about. They are going to yank on the normal door opening lever, repeatedly. It should be a basic certification requirement that this works, at least for the front doors (I'm willing to grant that the rear doors can have the "interior handle disabled" child safety things, but also, once your kids are out of car seats, this shouldn't be left enabled).

Tesla's arrogance about the lessons learned by the last century of the auto industry is killing people. I'm sure they've justified it internally as "Well, once our self driving stuff is working, our cars will never crash or fail so this doesn't matter," but come on. It's been a decade and that stuff still isn't working, so maybe put some mechanical door handles on your cars.

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#74
post #39
post #2

Another similar incident happened around a week after that one: https://www.channel3000.com/news/dane-county-sheriffs-office... . One thing to note is that the car doors in Teslas are electrically controlled and a different failsafe method of opening the doors is required when the electrical system isn't working. Here's the steps for manually opening the Model Y's rear doors (car in the story the post links to): http…

"Tesla didn't account at all for what happens ..." Tesla might not have, but you can. Always have a glass breaker and seatbelt cutter in your vehicle. Doors get crumpled and can't open regardless of make/model.

> Always have a glass breaker

Isn't this advice becoming dated now that most new cars have side windows with laminated glass?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28422725/car-windows-glas...

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#75

My Chevrolet truck while having an actual door latch, doesn’t open the doors if they’re locked. You have to pull twice. Is that an electronic counter (likely) or mechanical? If the latter, no big deal, if the former it’s even worse than the Tesla - at least my MY has a separate mechanical over ride.

older generation BMWs do this same thing; it's achieved by a ratchet system on the door handle that interacts with the mechanically actuated lock.

it isn't electronic in the case of BMW. I don't know what Chevrolet does.

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#76
post #2

Another similar incident happened around a week after that one: https://www.channel3000.com/news/dane-county-sheriffs-office... . One thing to note is that the car doors in Teslas are electrically controlled and a different failsafe method of opening the doors is required when the electrical system isn't working. Here's the steps for manually opening the Model Y's rear doors (car in the story the post links to): http…

Someone on Mastodon pointed out that not all Model Ys even have the manual release. I didn't believe this could be true - how could regulators allow this?

But it's actually listed on the Model Y page (https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C...): "Note Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors."

Not sure what the distribution is or whether it's just an "old version" problem?

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#77
post #26

wow. That's genuinely scary. Sitting on top of a lithium fire while locked in seems terrifying. I wonder whether legislators should require inclusion of one of those glass break hammers in each car?

Would those hammers work on Tesla windows? IIRC, they now use laminated glass (like windshield glass) on the door windows as well.

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that these tools don't work if you have laminated side windows, which many cars now do!

I don’t know much about laminated windows, but would a $5 hammer from a hardware store work?

laminated windows have a layer of plastic in them. You need a cutting tool.

https://youtu.be/DyZrQ3Q0ZR0?t=75

Also I know this video has a firefighter in it but I will tell you that FFs are more likely to use a sawzall than a hand tool.

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#79

I recently had a break-in to my Tesla. All captured on sentry mode. The thief got in with a subtle, barely visible stab of their wrist. The Tesla service person who replaced my window figured it was a spark plug. In the video they barely make contact with my window and the whole window shatters, completely. So maybe at least storing spark plugs in each door bin. (Btw none of the relevant police jurisdictions cared a…

Are you living in a good neighborhood?

Re: Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash

#80
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tesla didn't account at all for what happens ..." Tesla might not have, but you can. Always have a glass breaker and seatbelt cutter in your vehicle. Doors get crumpled and can't open regardless of make/model.

> Always have a glass breaker Isn't this advice becoming dated now that most new cars have side windows with laminated glass? https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28422725/car-windows-glas...

Still probably easier to kick out a laminated window with cracks in it.
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