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Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

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Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#71

Post by donalhunt »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #20
bongodongobob wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's extremely painful. I jumped into a frozen lake years ago and ran to a shower afterwards. Turned on the water, just slightly warm and it felt like my fingers and toes got smashed by a hammer.

A friend was a Vietnamese POW. The first torture done was to tourniquet his upper arms until they colored to black and then loose the bindings (repeatedly). Returning circulation is much more brutal than it might sound.

Is this an extreme version of the "pins and needles" phenomenon (paresthesia)?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paresthesia

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#72

Post by exe34 »

DiscourseFan wrote: post #47
exe34 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people still pray to personal gods to this day, expecting them to prioritise their petty little lives while others are suffering/dying of things that could be trivially solved with a bit of knowledge and technology.

Praying to gods has a correlation with better medical outcomes, thats why they have chapels in hospitals. Same thing with visits from friends and families. Its not like everything can be solved by "advancing" technology.

nope, the evidence is pretty clear on prayers: they don't work.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2802370/#:~:text=We....

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#73

Post by lukan »

aspenmayer wrote: post #35
kstrauser wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. It's to form a barrier to keep bacteria out, with the downside that it also traps bacteria in. Also, oxygen's a gas.

I find that oils such as petroleum jelly or olive oil do provide pain relief for burns. I can only speculate as to the method of action, but I’m clearly not the only one. Apparently even air movement or contact can cause pain to burns due to the exposure of the dermis, and possibly other reasons. > Also, oxygen's a gas. Yeah, I think it must be carbon dioxide or some other gas that is naturally occurring in the atmos…

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy

"HBOT helps wound healing by bringing oxygen-rich plasma to tissue starved for oxygen. Wound injuries damage the body's blood vessels, They release fluid that leaks into the tissues and causes swelling. This swelling deprives the damaged cells of oxygen, and tissue starts to die. HBOT reduces swelling while flooding the tissues with oxygen. The higher pressure in the chamber increases the amount of oxygen in the blood. HBOT aims to break the cycle of swelling, oxygen starvation, and tissue death.

HBOT prevents "reperfusion injury." This is the severe tissue damage that happens when the blood supply returns to the tissues after they have been deprived of oxygen. Blood flow can be interrupted by a crush injury, for instance. If this happens, a series of events inside the damaged cells leads to the release of harmful oxygen radicals. These molecules can do damage to tissues that can't be reversed. They cause the blood vessels to clamp up and stop blood flow. HBOT encourages the body's oxygen radical scavengers to seek out the problem molecules and let healing continue.

HBOT helps block the action of harmful bacteria and strengthens the body's immune system. HBOT can disable the toxins of certain bacteria. It also increases oxygen concentration in the tissues. This helps them resist infection. And the therapy improves the ability of white blood cells to find and destroy invaders.

HBOT encourages the formation of new collagen and new skin cells. It does so by encouraging new blood vessels to grow. It also stimulates cells to make certain substances, like vascular endothelial growth factor. These attract and stimulate endothelial cells needed for healing."

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t...

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#74

Post by Dalewyn »

_yb2s wrote: post #61
robbiep wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without being overly condescending, you do realise that most of the things that have been done throughout history, along with many we still do, are the result of cultural practice and have no evidence base whatsoever? Whilst 1956 seems to be a fairly late date to stop what would seem in the surface to be a counter intuitive practice, 80 years earlier blood letting was still in vogue

I think most (but not all) such things actually did work, and were based on real evidence, we just don’t have easy access to that evidence and context anymore. It is quite likely that modern people are just arrogantly dismissing something they don’t understand.

Whenever we get the inkling to belittle our ancestors, we need to remember that we are nowhere as capable as they were.

Men today cannot build the Great Pyramids of Giza or invent Greek Fire, Roman Concrete, or Damascus Steel like the men of millenia past have.

Our only solace lies in the brutal fact that we invented the internet with which we can shitpost someone on the other side of the world. That is one thing our ancestors did not have and our successors will never surpass.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#75

Post by smackay »

grugagag wrote: post #44

When I was a kid we’d be spending a whole day playing in snow. When we’d come home in the evening with ice on the shoes, hair and cold hands and feet - but not as bad as getting real frost bites - would have a little warm up. My grandmother taught me to wash my hands with cold water at first then gradually add warm water. I still remeber cold water felt warm on frozen hands. Also many times when my hands were cold I’…

If you wear gloves, you'll always wear gloves - annec-data from the crew I used to go out with catching shorebirds, in Scotland, in the middle of winter. The glove wearers we unable to function within an hour of taking them off to band, measure and release the birds. The non-glove wearers were able to keep going for as long as it took.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#76

Post by homebrewer »

grugagag wrote: post #41
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same experience. I stepped into a hot shower with frostbite in two of my toes (just half of my big toe and bit of the the next toe over) and I inadvertently screamed and fell over, ripping the shower curtain down and everything. I wanted out badly. There’s no aching sensation quite like it that I’ve experienced. I’d definitely fail the gom jabbar. I still can’t feel anything in that side of my big toe, and…

You can’t feel anything on that side of your big toe after how long? Is full recovery ever expected?

Since OP isn't responding, I'll add that I completely lost feeling in the nose about ten years ago by staying outside in −45°C for way too long, and it never recovered. The front half feels like it's permanently under anesthetic. Other than that, it looks and works as it always did.

I didn't even notice anything until three passerby in a row said that my nose looks funny and I should probably do something about it ASAP.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#77

Post by rendall »

Dalewyn wrote: post #74
_yb2s wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most (but not all) such things actually did work, and were based on real evidence, we just don’t have easy access to that evidence and context anymore. It is quite likely that modern people are just arrogantly dismissing something they don’t understand.

Whenever we get the inkling to belittle our ancestors, we need to remember that we are nowhere as capable as they were. Men today cannot build the Great Pyramids of Giza or invent Greek Fire, Roman Concrete, or Damascus Steel like the men of millenia past have. Our only solace lies in the brutal fact that we invented the internet with which we can shitpost someone on the other side of the world. That is one thing our…

I agree with your general point that we are in no way inherently superior to our ancestors, but Roman concrete, Damacus steel, and Greek fire are inferior to what we have today to accomplish the same things.

Practical Engineering on Roman concrete. The TL;DR is that we are far more advanced. https://youtu.be/qL0BB2PRY7k?si=kqiyxOTLBQw9h4_F

We do know how to make Damascus steel: https://youtube.com/shorts/1DNWLZ8IiMQ?si=c4-Ch7C3Q_6zcYoi

This fellow says we don't know how to make the historical Greek fire but acknowledges we can make identical substances: https://youtube.com/shorts/wiHXE6lhLmo?si=OPEjW40cck5aQAsv

We could build the Great Pyramid today using modern methods in 5 years using 2000 workers and $5 billion USD vs historical 20 years and 10s of thousands of workers: https://www.livescience.com/18589-cost-build-great-pyramid-t...

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#78

Post by kuschku »

smackay wrote: post #75
grugagag wrote: post #44

When I was a kid we’d be spending a whole day playing in snow. When we’d come home in the evening with ice on the shoes, hair and cold hands and feet - but not as bad as getting real frost bites - would have a little warm up. My grandmother taught me to wash my hands with cold water at first then gradually add warm water. I still remeber cold water felt warm on frozen hands. Also many times when my hands were cold I’…

If you wear gloves, you'll always wear gloves - annec-data from the crew I used to go out with catching shorebirds, in Scotland, in the middle of winter. The glove wearers we unable to function within an hour of taking them off to band, measure and release the birds. The non-glove wearers were able to keep going for as long as it took.

For some people[1], when their body temperature drops below a certain point, circulation in hands and feet is reduced. This helps heat the body core, saving organs while potentially sacrificing hands or feet.

At first this feels like a burn, then like someone's putting needles into your hands, and then they just go numb. You can't do precise actions with your hand anymore and soon you'll lose most of the ability to move it at all. You might even lose the body part. All while the core of your body is still warm and you're still able to walk and talk.

But as said, not everyone experiences this. For some people, when they get cold, their body increases circulation in the hands, keeping them warm enough to continue working no matter what.

________________

1. In extreme cases, this is called white hands syndrome or reynauds syndrome and primarily affects women. It seems to have a hereditary component, but worsens permanently whenever the hands experience cold or vibration.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#79

Post by namaria »

m463 wrote: post #55
grugagag wrote: post #44

When I was a kid we’d be spending a whole day playing in snow. When we’d come home in the evening with ice on the shoes, hair and cold hands and feet - but not as bad as getting real frost bites - would have a little warm up. My grandmother taught me to wash my hands with cold water at first then gradually add warm water. I still remeber cold water felt warm on frozen hands. Also many times when my hands were cold I’…

I keep my shower at the same temperature. In the morning it feels hot. But after hiking on a cold (not freezing) day the water feels SCALDING. I suspect there are actually two "hot" shower types: - the actual scalding shower with physical damage - the "scalding" shower which is actually skin-temperature-sensor overload that is more psychological. It is more a accustomed temperature difference thing. but below freezin…

Thermoception is indeed thought to be a response to heat flux rather than absolute temperatures. If the tissue is colder, water at the same temperature should warm it up faster and thus elicit a stronger heat perception.

Re: Why did people rub snow on frozen feet? (2017)

#80

Post by codingdave »

smackay wrote: post #75
grugagag wrote: post #44

When I was a kid we’d be spending a whole day playing in snow. When we’d come home in the evening with ice on the shoes, hair and cold hands and feet - but not as bad as getting real frost bites - would have a little warm up. My grandmother taught me to wash my hands with cold water at first then gradually add warm water. I still remeber cold water felt warm on frozen hands. Also many times when my hands were cold I’…

If you wear gloves, you'll always wear gloves - annec-data from the crew I used to go out with catching shorebirds, in Scotland, in the middle of winter. The glove wearers we unable to function within an hour of taking them off to band, measure and release the birds. The non-glove wearers were able to keep going for as long as it took.

Are you trying to say that wearing gloves is a bad thing? Because while yes, you can get used to cold hands if you have good circulation, there is a point where you cannot function without gloves. If the temp is -20F with 20mph winds, you are not going to be functional in bare hands. Although sure, if you are talking about +20F with little wind, some people can work in mild cold like that all day.
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