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Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

flightglobal.com

71–80 of 311 posts

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#71
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero fatalities though. You could do a lot worse for a massive air traffic control failure.

Unfortunately shutting down air traffic generally does not result in zero excess deaths: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3233376/

Your source says “the fatality rate did not change appreciably”.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#72
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately shutting down air traffic generally does not result in zero excess deaths: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3233376/

Your source says “the fatality rate did not change appreciably”.

Injuries did increase, though, and I can't think of a plausible mechanism that would somehow cap expected outcomes at "injury but not death".

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#73
post #9

FYI: nm = nautical miles, not nanometers.

Even though I knew this was about aviation, I still read nm as nanometres. Now I'm wondering what this says about how my brain works.

It says ‘metric’. Good.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#74

You know there's a software engineer somewhere that saw this as a potential problem, brought up a solution, and had that solution rejected because handling it would add 40 hours of work to a project.

CGP Grey The Maddening Mess of Airport Codes! https://youtu.be/jfOUVYQnuhw

I'd rather deal with designing tables to properly represent names.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#75
post #66
post #39

I've posted this here before, but they really need globally unique codes for all the airports, waypoints, etc, it's crazy there are collisions. People always balk at this for some reason but look at the edge cases that can occur, it's crazy CRAZY

Coming up with a globally unique waypoint system is trivial. Convincing the aviation industry to spend many hundreds of millions of dollars to change a core data type used in just about every single aviation-related system, in order to avoid triggering rare once-a-decade bugs? That's a lot harder.

> That's a lot harder.

I wonder what 1,500 cancelled flights and 700,000 disrupted passengers adds up to in cost? And that’s just this one incident.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#76
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your source says “the fatality rate did not change appreciably”.

Injuries did increase, though, and I can't think of a plausible mechanism that would somehow cap expected outcomes at "injury but not death".

So we were talking about excess deaths, which means that supporting your argument with a paper that argues that a previous finding of excessive deaths was flawed is probably not the strongest argument you could make.

Increased number of injuries but not deaths could be, for example, (purely making things up off the top of my head here) due to higher levels of distractedness among average drivers due to fear of terrorism, which results in more low-speed, surface-street collisions, while there’s no change in high speed collisions because a short spell of distractedness on the highway is less likely to result in an accident.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#77
post #7

People posting on this forum saying "ah well software's failure case isn't as bad" > This forced controllers to revert to manual processing, leading to more than 1,500 flight cancellations and delaying hundreds of services which did operate.

The software needs a way to reject bad plans without falling over.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#78
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question isn't really how many would think it meant nanonmeters, it's how many would recognise it as nautical miles.

In aviation? Literally everyone. Context clues should make it obvious.

The context is a bug. The bug could have been using nanometers when nautical miles were intended.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#79
As an aside, that site's cookie policy sucks. You can opt out of some, but others, like "combine and link data from other sources", "identify devices based on information transmitted automatically", "link different devices" and others can't be disabled. I feel bad for people that don't have the technical sophistication to protect themselves against that kind of prying.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#80

So, essentially the system has a serious denial of service flaw. I wonder how many variations of flight plans can cause different but similar errors that also force a disconnect of primary and secondary systems. Seems "reject individual flight plan" might be a better system response than "down hard to prevent corruption" Bad assumption that a failure to interpret a plan is a serious coding error seems to be the root…

Reject the flight plan would be the last case scenario, but where it should have gone without other options rather than total shutdown.

CORRECT the flight plan, by first promoting the exit/entry points for each autonomous region along the route, validating the entry/exit list only, and then the arcs within, would be the least errant method.

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