Live data from Hacker News

Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

sloanreview.mit.edu

71–80 of 95 posts

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#71
post #2

Working from home reduces visibility, you don't work from home to make more and get promoted, you work from home to avoid the retardation of a commute, busy work, excessive meetings, etc. You work from home so you can put in 2 hours work, accomplish as much as anyone else did and spend the remaining 6 enjoying your life. I'm pretty sure that everyone who decides to work from home did so for quality of life reasons ra…

Yes. I love being able to sleep in and avoid meetings.

It takes me an 1 1/2 hours to commute into work. By that time, I'm exhausted from dealing with traffic. Next, you have to deal with coworkers and their noise noise noise. Everyone wants to small chat at my job. That's fine, but don't hang around my desk and try to get my attention while I'm staring down a bug (death stare). Its rude and I can't concentrate.

As a software engineer, I try to avoid as many meetings as possible. I just want to build the things that are needed to be built. Avoiding meetings helps with that for two reasons... 1) You have more time to work on a task 2) You don't have to break your thought pattern to fixing a bug/solving a problem

As you said, with telecommuting you get more done with less time. Its basically a daily mini hack-a-thon in your living room/Starbucks. I normally get in about 2-5 hours of solid developing. It really depends on the task and when I can review the changes to my boss for the final push. The rest of the time I can relax and think out the problems.

At work, I just can't concentrate that well. You're stuck at one location for 8 hours. At the same time, you just want to go home. With telecommuting, I can wake up later (which makes me more alert), work for a few hours, relax, and come back to the problem when I have those occasional "eureka!" moments.

Now, I like to say that working at home is the be all end all. I still need to show up to push code to production. I still occasionally need to talk to staff about what projects should be next on the list. But, if your main job requires you to just be imaginative and churn out code, then being isolated is where its at.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#72
post #2

Working from home reduces visibility, you don't work from home to make more and get promoted, you work from home to avoid the retardation of a commute, busy work, excessive meetings, etc. You work from home so you can put in 2 hours work, accomplish as much as anyone else did and spend the remaining 6 enjoying your life. I'm pretty sure that everyone who decides to work from home did so for quality of life reasons ra…

Yes. I love being able to sleep in and avoid meetings. It takes me an 1 1/2 hours to commute into work. By that time, I'm exhausted from dealing with traffic. Next, you have to deal with coworkers and their noise noise noise. Everyone wants to small chat at my job. That's fine, but don't hang around my desk and try to get my attention while I'm staring down a bug (death stare). Its rude and I can't concentrate. As a…

You're stuck at one location for 8 hours. At the same time, you just want to go home.

I think this is a big deal. You feel stuck. You want to go home. When you're already home, there's not usually an urge to go to the office, you're already where you want to be. Also, if you do feel an urge to go somewhere, if you're at home already it's much less guilt inducing to head to Starbucks for an hour or two than it is to leave work to go to Starbucks for some time.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#73
post #21

Working from home is a popular topic for us engineers. Generally speaking there are two broad camps in this argument: 1. Those who want to work from home and argue largely from that position. They say they'll be just as productive, you can write code from anywhere, having a more flexible schedule will make them happier and more productive and so on; and 2. Those that think there is more to your job than the lines of…

>culture is important I see this asserted a lot, but what exactly is meant by 'culture', and is it really true? For example, if by 'culture' you mean having an office full of well-educated, capable, motivated engineers and problem-solvers vs not well-educated, capable, or motivated, then sure, I buy that. Strong leadership that intimately knows the business? Sure, Intel and Apple being exhibits A & B. But beyond that…

Think of culture as cooking.

You can use the finest meats, freshest vegetables and highest quality herbs, and still produce an awful meal by assembling them wrong. But on the flip side, you CAN make a very good meal from mediocre ingredients by preparing them properly.

Two examples form my career:

Workplace A: full of smart, motivated problem solvers and "A players" who failed in key ways because a toxic culture just poisoned anything. People were nasty and busy protecting fiefs. The individual work efforts were great, but they couldn't come together.

Workplace B: A place where there was a fairly broad range of people from marginally skilled folks to the super-smart where the teams just got along and had leadership that promoted cross-training and cooperation. People were friendly & professional.

As a leader, doing the care & feeding to maintain good culture (aka making work a place where you want to work) is hard. I think that after you reach a certain size, 100% remote workers make it harder, at least for a core team. Also, your business requirements around security and other factors may force you to do things that will damage that remote culture.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#74
post #21

Working from home is a popular topic for us engineers. Generally speaking there are two broad camps in this argument: 1. Those who want to work from home and argue largely from that position. They say they'll be just as productive, you can write code from anywhere, having a more flexible schedule will make them happier and more productive and so on; and 2. Those that think there is more to your job than the lines of…

The rule I am getting comfortable with for people I'm hiring: I don't care where or when you get work done, just get it done. If that means home, if that means office, if that means a cafe - go for it. If that means at 3am - awesome, be productive when you're in the state of mind, mood and place to be productive. I'm primarily a creative person, as most good engineers are - problem solvers, and this is how I end up being most productive.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#75
post #21

Working from home is a popular topic for us engineers. Generally speaking there are two broad camps in this argument: 1. Those who want to work from home and argue largely from that position. They say they'll be just as productive, you can write code from anywhere, having a more flexible schedule will make them happier and more productive and so on; and 2. Those that think there is more to your job than the lines of…

This post is hilarious when read a bit more accurately. Basically, you have said that there are two broad categories, rational people and irrational people. I guess it's a nice technique for argument, but I suspect that most people do not fit nicely into either of your buckets.

I want to work from home, and do enjoy doing so. I also like working from the office and enjoy doing so. There's more to my job than lines of code that I write. Culture is important. Culture sometimes transmits via physical proximity, and sometimes other means (IM, Phone, etc). Sometimes one or two meetings a week (or even month) is more than adequate to cover the parts that don't communicate so easily remotely. Sometimes remote workers go to lunch (or dinner) with colleagues. Sometimes my whiteboard is a computer.

Your group 2 covers a broad range of people and needs, some of which may sometimes require (or significantly benefit from) close proximity, and some of which often won't.

Basically, people, personalities, and working style vary.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed so far. What's wrong with working from home? When the CEO brings guests to the office so that they can "meet the team", you're never there. When the guests ask about your project, someone else on your team will represent you. When your manager is muttering jokes to the team during the design meeting, you won't hear those jokes. Some of the jokes may involve the projects that are already being discussed in othe…

The two parent comments from suresk and mechanical_fish are exactly right about the real, though unquantifiable benefits of being in close proximity to peers and bosses. I work for a large organization with a big head office and dozens of smaller offices around the world. I've received more than my fair share of promotions. However, of twenty two years in the same organization I've worked in eight different cities in…

> If other things in life are higher on your list of priorities, accept that you are making a trade-off that is right for you. [...] You have chosen different rewards.

Yes! I used to work with someone who, when someone suggested, "That's a career-limiting move", would say, "I don't want a career, I want a job." (He is a brilliant engineer, by the way.) His point was that he had other goals than promotions. Having that job was simply his way of having enough money to fund the toys that made his life fun.

Years ago I made a choice to move to a rural area; there are no decent tech jobs within a 1 hour commute. On occasion I've had to work away from home for extended periods, but for the most part I've been a full-time telecommuter. I drive a couple of hours to an office to spend a day every other week, or once a month, depending on the organization. I'm "missing out" on advancing my career, but the money is still decent, I get to put my kids to bed every night, I can water the garden at lunchtime -- and pick a fresh salad, etc.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#77
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a tester who lives in another city from us, and I've managed to build camaraderie with him using nothing but skype IM, including breeze shooting and other non-work based activities. I have done the same in previous jobs, with people on the other side of the world. I don't think you need to be in the same room.

In large companies that I've worked for, the uptake of IM and skype is slow and barring the occasional video conference when someone just couldn't travel for one reason or another, is almost frowned upon. That kind of makes it difficult for remote working to take place effectively, because, whatever else we may think, work is more than just "give me my list of tasks and I'll give you the deliverables".....the social…

It's funny that in the companies where working from home I think is more likely (big companies with policies about it and such), it would probably be less effective because those same companies probably have locked down computers and firewalls and the users wouldn't be as able to use what they might deem most effective (Google Docs? Skype? Dropbox?)

Whereas with smaller companies where you can pretty much do carte blanche ("install whatever software you need on your PC as long as it doesn't drain our Comcast business internet"), working from home would probably be looked down upon.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#78
post #18

Let me explain this to you in simple terms. If your manager appreciates 'blow your trumpet' culture where 'making noise' is more important than work, then Working from home might be disastrous to you. But if your manager understands the wastage of time during travel/commute. The troubles faced by programmers due to frequent meetings and interruptions, the need for solitary isolation to think and work on tough problem…

Where do the managers (and team members for that matter) fit in who have tried telecommuting experiments, seen productivity drop, moved back to co-located teams, and seen productivity rise back to previous levels again?

Well, it works for some, so either the team of this theoretical person or manager was a unique snowflake or there were people problems causing this distinction (e.g. people who abuse it, crappy manager who was using stupid metrics that prove their biases).

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those that think there is more to your job than the lines of code you write. In even small companies (maybe even especially small companies?) culture is important. Culture transmits largely by physical proximity. Osmosis if you will. There is value in team camaraderie, whiteboard sessions, going to lunch with colleagues, sometimes just sitting around and shooting the breeze about whatever." You're waiving your hands…

As a result I'm more productive than the average non-telecommuting worker. Although sometimes optimising somebody's individual productivity gets in the way of optimising the productivity of the company as a whole. You need to figure out where the bottlenecks are before you know the right place to optimise :-)

Although sometimes optimising somebody's individual productivity gets in the way of optimising the productivity of the company as a whole.

That's the real rub. It's entirely possible that the Right Thing To Do - from the perspective of the firm - is the do something other than what is most optimal for the individual. Sp, as a lot of us geeks tend to be fairly individualistic, and because it can be hard to isolate the variables when you're talking about team productivity, a lot of us fall on the side of "optimize for the individual."

As somebody who's radically individualistic, and who is also a startup founder, I find myself torn on the idea of whether or not it even makes sense to have an office, or whether it makes sense to push for a completely distributed team.

I'm getting a bit of a real-world experiment with these issues now, as my $DAYJOB has me in Chicago for a 6 month consulting gig and my co-founders are back in the RTP area. We use email and IM heavily now... but we had an in-person "hack day" last weekend when I was home, and there was definitely value in all 3 of us being in the same room, huddled up together.

I'm leaning towards thinking firms probably should have offices, and that most people should be in the office at least part of the time. But I would take a pretty laissez-faire approach towards it, I think. Provide offices, but give people fairly unlimited freedom to work remotely or come into the office as they see fit.

Re: Why Showing Your Face at Work Matters

#80
post #21

Working from home is a popular topic for us engineers. Generally speaking there are two broad camps in this argument: 1. Those who want to work from home and argue largely from that position. They say they'll be just as productive, you can write code from anywhere, having a more flexible schedule will make them happier and more productive and so on; and 2. Those that think there is more to your job than the lines of…

Generally speaking there are two broad camps in this argument There's at least one more camp. Those who think that there's large body of evidence that, all other things being equal, a good co-located team will be much more productive than a distributed one. And I say this as somebody who lives in a relatively rural part of the UK, runs their own company, and spends a pretty large chunk of my time telecommuting and wo…

I could go on....

Yes, I wouldn't argue against the notion that - in general - co-location is better for (at least short-term) productivity. The question, to me, is "what about the other effects?" Does forcing co-location decrease job satisfaction, for example, and what's the effect on turnover? Or what about morale, and it's impact on productivity over a longer period of time?

There are also issues like "what if the super talented developer I want to hire will only work remotely?" Am I better off forgoing his/her talents completely, or accepting a (perhaps less than optimal) remote work arrangement?

I don't think any of these issues have black and white answers; and I think that determining the ideal work environment is still a bit (art|black magic|luck|etc) and not yet a science.

Post reply on HN