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Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#71

Post by belter »

seiferteric wrote: post #22
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything being stored in the cloud somewhere Sounds like it would make it easier for law enforcement. They no longer need a warrant against/for the company they're investigating, just the place where their data is stored. Get the warrant, raid the place and grab the drives, then continue the investigation. Done the right way, the company under investigation wouldn't even notice it.

That's why I wonder if these raids are really more for show, can't they do this pretty much already?

Completely for show since they even make press releases about it.

And its sad to see the atrocious quality of the BBC article. Even high school students learn that a journalistic piece, should make sure it touches the Five Ws of good journalism...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ws

The Hollywood Reporter has much better quality reporting including context: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/net...

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#73

Post by badpun »

seiferteric wrote: post #5

I wonder how these "office raids" would work for remote first companies that don't have much of an office presence and with little or no physical documents and everything being stored in the cloud somewhere.

The authorities asks for access to these online documents? Similarly to how they ask to access to physical documents (they don't break down doors and break locks on file cabinets). If the personel of the company does not disclose some of the online documents, and these documents come up later (e.g. because they are referenced in some of the documents that did get disclosed), the people who did it get charged with tampering with an tax investigation.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#74

Post by _ink_ »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #61
_ink_ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an interview with Anne Brorhilker, who used to be state's attorney and was investigating in CumEx cases. She stated that it is a huge pain, because you always need to ask the foreign agencies for assistance, which you sometimes simply won't get. It was a good listen. At first she needed to go empty handed, but then teamed up with competent tech guys. After that the smug faces stating, that the amount of dat…

That sounds fascinating, do you happen to have a link? (I'm getting a lot of German results, which unfortunately I don't have the fluency to parse to find the 'right' one.)

Here you go: https://logbuch-netzpolitik.de/lnp500-zombiecalypse-im-grune... (it's in German, tho)

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#75

Post by Muromec »

Algent wrote: post #69
seiferteric wrote: post #5

I wonder how these "office raids" would work for remote first companies that don't have much of an office presence and with little or no physical documents and everything being stored in the cloud somewhere.

That's basically what happened when they tried (twice I think ?) to raid Uber offices in France, their boss pressed a kill switch and everything went down in seconds. It completely blocked the investigation. Afterward Uber helped Macron campaign who then ordered National Financial Prosecutor's office to "stop bothering them" so I don't think anything new happened since. Edit: Some sources in below replies for infos o…

Sounds like obstruction of justice or what not

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#76

Post by gruez »

scarface_74 wrote: post #70
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything being stored in the cloud somewhere Sounds like it would make it easier for law enforcement. They no longer need a warrant against/for the company they're investigating, just the place where their data is stored. Get the warrant, raid the place and grab the drives, then continue the investigation. Done the right way, the company under investigation wouldn't even notice it.

First the data is stored in another country. Second are they really going to raid and take the drives at an AWS data center that has other customer’s information? How will they know which drive to take?

>First the data is stored in another country.

Plus you can engage in some jurisdiction arbitrage where all the documents pertaining to country A is stored in country B, and all the documents pertaining to country B is stored in country A.

> Second are they really going to raid and take the drives at an AWS data center that has other customer’s information?

You can also ask AWS to produce the files/documents for you.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#77

Post by Muromec »

spwa4 wrote: post #12
crest wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everything is synchronised to third party could storage an "office raid" can be as easy as getting a court order telling the cloud provider to make a snapshot of everything stored available to the police.

Is there a product allowing for client-side encrypted mounts? Or just use a SAAS outside of the country that doesn't allow for exporting any data under any circumstances?

It's not the game you can win against the government

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#78

Post by [deleted] »

lowkey_ wrote: post #68
asveikau wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think "the cloud" is? I'm reminded of an old meme, "the cloud is just someone else's computer". They could raid a data center and seize machines. They could also subpoena data they are looking for.

You'd likely be seizing a bunch of other innocent people's data too, then, no? As an American, I'd be really surprised if we let that happen. I looked and found it apparently happened once, in 2009 in Texas: https://www.cio.com/article/278564/data-center-when-the-fbi-... It resulted in another company essentially being shut down, and suing for their data back. Crazy. There has to be a better way of doing that digital…

[deleted]

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#79

Post by crossroadsguy »

oceanplexian wrote: post #67
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything being stored in the cloud somewhere Sounds like it would make it easier for law enforcement. They no longer need a warrant against/for the company they're investigating, just the place where their data is stored. Get the warrant, raid the place and grab the drives, then continue the investigation. Done the right way, the company under investigation wouldn't even notice it.

The data is stored on a server in another country where the warrant isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. Now what?

That is why countries are increasingly demanding (and mandating) those data (of citizens and business done there or that involves that nation or its citizens) to be stored inside their borders.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#80

Post by grapesodaaaaa »

scarface_74 wrote: post #70
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything being stored in the cloud somewhere Sounds like it would make it easier for law enforcement. They no longer need a warrant against/for the company they're investigating, just the place where their data is stored. Get the warrant, raid the place and grab the drives, then continue the investigation. Done the right way, the company under investigation wouldn't even notice it.

First the data is stored in another country. Second are they really going to raid and take the drives at an AWS data center that has other customer’s information? How will they know which drive to take?

Data stored in another country: are their reciprocal prosecution agreements with that country?

Raiding AWS: call Amazon, provide subpoena, Amazon can either give access to the account or provide copies of data. This would only allow access to non-customer encrypted data.

I played with encryption schemes and obfuscation pretty heavily for a long time, but at the end of the day companies operate within the legal frameworks of the countries they reside in. If you don’t cooperate, you could end up in jail anyway.

I think the conclusion I’ve come to is that you have to play by the rules. If you don’t like them, is it really worth falling on the sword for a corporate entity?

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