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Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

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Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#71

Post by buffet_overflow »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

I like this idea. Perhaps let them self select if they will respond or not, but they have to advertise in the posting which path they chose?

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#72

Post by FireBeyond »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

I think that's a great start. I mean for me, I'm realistic - if it's a pre-first round or first round exit so to speak, I don't expect anything substantive, a canned response is acceptable. I get that it's a pain when you have hundreds of applicants, but it should also be trivial.

It is nice to expect something a bit more involved if it's a final round thing, but still. No-one likes the ghost.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#73

Post by ojbyrne »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #28

Many companies have policies requiring that all jobs have to be posted both internally and externally before being filled. The intent is to prevent Sam the VP from just slotting his buddy into the job. At the end of the day, Sam the VP is just going to slot his buddy into the job but now you made a whole bunch of people apply for a job that was never available to them. Same thing happens with H1B/PERM, except now it'…

When I was doing PERM, I was also WFH. HR told me to put 2 postings up in my apartment.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#74

Post by rafterydj »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

Two questions: 1) How would the feedback loop work from users who do not receive a response? 2) Are you concerned about a possible "chilling effect" for startups that don't want to post for fear of being spammed?

As an aside, been browsing HN for years and always wanted to say that you're doing the Lord's work.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#75

Post by zahllos »

stewx wrote: post #27
itqwertz wrote: post #6

Don’t use LinkedIn or Monster or Indeed. You’re better off searching on Google with “ inurl:careers” and finding positions these companies are directly hiring for.

I've gotten 2 good jobs directly or indirectly from LinkedIn. I would argue LinkedIn is probably the one site that you absolutely need to be on.

Agree. Plus recruiters also sometimes reach out. There is quite a high signal to noise as always, but, it can be worth it. You don't need to engage in all the influencer crap at all, just ignore that and use it to be found by recruiters and to see some open positions.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#76

Post by KittenInABox »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

I would suggest that there be a way to report bad-faith job postings in some way or there are consequences. anyone can claim they applied with no response. Someone who reports actual evidence like "this account has posted this exact listing for the last 4 months and the company size hasn't changed a bit" may justify e.g. removing listings.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#77

Post by enjeyw »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

I like it! Frankly, it should be something that hiring companies do anyways.

Perhaps extend it to something like everyone who applies, or responds to your comment”

Practically speaking, enforcement will be difficult/impossible for actions off HN - if someone claims a company isn’t responding, or using a templated email, how would you verify that?

By enforcing the same rule for a job thread, there’s a very clear location where the behavior of the company can be observed.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#78

Post by busterarm »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

What about all of the YC companies posting comment-free ads for founding engineers offering 1/2 market wages and next-to-no equity in person in SF?

Honestly it's practically a joke to look at and it starting to make YC itself look bad. Seriously there is no value prop to these postings unless you are jobless, desperate and living in your car.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#79

Post by neilv »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

Great idea. Do you also want to address some more root problems of job postings:

* done for optics, to look like growth or doing well, or just to have their name out there.

* to fill the pipeline for future needs

* to assess the hiring market, for planning

* (for reasons mentioned in article) to light fire under current employees, or see how replaceable they are

* only for a serendipitous unicorn hire, not commodity developer

* for training in their hiring process

I know all these are things that happen in general with startup job posts, though not necessarily on HN.

None of those reasons preclude "responding", but responding doesn't solve the real problem, it's only a PR sugar coating on it.

An example of disclosure on the unicorn hire one would be to simply state the truth about it. That's fine, so long as you're not pretending to grow. It could even be good optics, about hiring standards.

Disclosure of some of the other intent would preclude it (e.g., probably nobody is going to state the goal of threatening or replacing current employees). Maybe those posts shouldn't be done at all, or maybe they can at least say that this is a speculative post, not for a currently open position.

I'd say job posts have to be truthful, and it's by default implied that they actually good faith intend to fill the position as described, in a timely manner, and that interviews will only be conducted in good faith. If the default isn't true, they should disclose that.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#80

Post by gaws »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #28

Many companies have policies requiring that all jobs have to be posted both internally and externally before being filled. The intent is to prevent Sam the VP from just slotting his buddy into the job. At the end of the day, Sam the VP is just going to slot his buddy into the job but now you made a whole bunch of people apply for a job that was never available to them. Same thing happens with H1B/PERM, except now it'…

> At the end of the day, Sam the VP is just going to slot his buddy into the job but now you made a whole bunch of people apply for a job that was never available to them.

Nowadays, in tech, it's all about who you know rather than what you know.

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