Strongly opposed to any sort of sanction regime that results in this.
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I invite readers to note the couching here of a technical/strategic point in a moral/historical comparison, and to consider whether the latter is warranted
Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
71–80 of 314 posts
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#72Not a good idea for Linux to get involved in geopolitical drama. Any self-respecting maintainer will not come back after this. Linux might have a lot of developers, but has a hard time finding and retaining maintainers. This is not a good development.
It's not a geopolitical drama or melodrama, Linux Foundation needs to follow the laws of US where it's located. It's the same as any other American company
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's of the main reasons these sanctions exist. It's the biggest topic in Europe since WW2.
Well, I oppose the inclusion of OSS in those sanctions. I’m also generally skeptical of the theory of change - economic decoupling generally doesn’t make conflict less likely or protracted.
As far I understand software itself is not included in US sanctions, it's the infrastructure, websites, mailing lists etc
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#74If it is because of national security concerns, will Israelis and Chinese lose kernel maintainership status as well?
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> That freedom means giving enemies unfettered access to our most sensitive systems? Do you imply that Linux is a technology controlled by Western state actors? > I would like to remind you of the recent XZ utils backdoor into SSH contributed by a less than friendly nation state. Would you support a backdoor contributed by a friendly nation state?
I didn't say "western"!
Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the world has been split in two:
Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else.
I can deploy an Azure or AWS cloud server right now in any one of several dozen nations, including Malaysia, Indonesia, Chile, Qatar, Israel, and Mexico.
I can't deploy VMs in Russia, China, Iran, or North Korea.
Not just because of sanctions, but because they don't allow me to. It's illegal for me -- I don't even need to specify which country I am in, it doesn't matter -- to deploy pretty much anything in those nations, by their own laws. (Similarly, I can't buy property, start a business, buy shares directly, etc, etc...)
Have a look at the requirements to deploy something into China: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-check... and https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-sover...
Nothing like this is needed for any other cloud region. I can just pick "the rest of the planet" from a drop-down list at will.
So why should we let "the other side" of the planet gain benefits from our collective works, if they slam the door in our face in response?
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
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did banning plastic straws in a few US cities fix climate change and pollution? >The access Russia currently enjoys is the equivalent of Goebbels being allowed to anonymously publish front-page editorials in the Times there's absolutely nothing you can do about this to prevent this. troll farms can afford residential VPNs and can network with the US/EU via neighboring neutral countries or their overseas agents. >whil…
> there's absolutely nothing you can do about this to prevent this.
Fibre can be cut.
I know it's unpalatable, or somehow "an escalation", but when NATO started backing Ukraine and the US imposed sanctions on Russia, the logical move would have been to immediately sever all of their international network links. There's what, a few dozen fibre connections crossing their borders?
The alternative is this: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/media/right-wing-media-in...
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cool. Which country owns the Linux kernel? Not that I disagree with the move 100%, but I don't think it's that clear cut.
Linux foundation is 501(c)(6) organization based in US.of.A
Completely irrelevant. They are not the owner of the Linux kernel.
Linus holds the trademark. The copyright holders are the contributors to the source code. Nobody "owns" it, that's the point, it's an international project.
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#78Strongly opposed to any sort of sanction regime that results in this.
Do sanctions ever actually work as intended?
To this casual bystander it seems like they usually hurt innocent citizens far more than the leaders of the usually authoritarion regime that it targets.
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#79Probably the best thing that can happen to the kernel... this type of measure generally backfires spectacularly by giving talent the opportunity to thrive, if anything as a way to fight back against injustice and arbitrary decisions, or for sanctioned opposition to invest in resilience by dumping more money in things otherwise not consider a priority. I always thought Argentine music from the 80's and early 90s was l…
Regional bands thrived and created gems that even today can be appreciated as masterpieces...
Care to name a few?
Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
While everything you mention is absolutely true, to the credit of the opinion of whimsicalism, any maintainer worldwide could get offered tons of bitcoins to integrate a backdoor / "bug". True life-changing money, in all absolute sense.
Exactly. And that's how the west / america would approach it. Throw money at it until u get what u want
That’s generally how you incentivize humans, yes.