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Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

blog.godfreyai.com

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Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#71

Post by ckmiaomix »

jaredklewis wrote: post #67
ckmiaomix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! Author here - that's actually...kinda the point. The good treatment you mentioned doesn't organically happen. Your leaders have to fight for it and maintain it. And eng leaders...just aren't in the fight right now. If good eng leaders actually stepped up and brought the ethos of enabling creativity, autonomy, and well-being to the rest of the org, everyone would be in a better place.

Hi author. Just commenting to say I found your article to be very clear and insightful, thanks for writing it!

Thank you so much for reading it and commenting.

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#72

Post by rbrown »

bluepizza wrote: post #60
ckmiaomix wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL read literally the last 4 paragraphs. "Other functions would do well to bring the same kind of focus on enabling productivity, happiness, and autonomy to their workers. In fact, CTOs-turned-CEOs I know tend to be some of the most kind, creative, and abundance-minded leaders I’ve ever had the pleasure to work with. They have an inherent understanding on the importance of culture and making people feel valued."

> LOL read literally the last 4 paragraphs. OP gave you valuable feedback on how your point is not getting across. Should you edit, or should you lol and snark is a personal choice for you to make. But OP is just trying to help you.

I'm the OP. I didn't say this

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#73

Post by rbrown »

This became a much more engaged conversation than I expected! I interpreted the writer as saying that

1. Communicating your value to other departments is a skill that you can learn

2. Learning how to do this lets you own the narrative within an organization

3. Owning your department's narrative is how "normal" work relationships work

4. That engineering hasn't needed to do this before is an anomaly

5. Now's a good time to learn

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#75

Post by missinglugnut »

ckmiaomix wrote: post #28
rKarpinski wrote: post #10

"Engineers have been spoiled rotten for the last two decades[...] employers offered unlimited PTO" In what world does unlimited PTO spoil engineers? It removes the companies liability for vacation days and shames employees into taking less time off.

Author here! Came when I saw my Substack blowing up. This isn't to imply that engineers are universally treated well, but that RELATIVE to other workers, they held far more bargaining power and faced better working conditions across the board. Most companies outside of the tech bubble don't even have the concept of unlimited PTO. There's probably something broader to be said re: this point on bargaining power of work…

Hi author,

I think you've written an excellent article, and also that you would be well served by ignoring the comments on it.

Some people here feel you've called them entitled. I think you made a useful nuanced point about how engineering looks to others, but the people who feel insulted don't see it that way and some of them are going to be quite harsh about it.

Those who interpret your article as an attack are not going to be swayed, so I'm just here to say you have my respect if you choose to disengage.

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#76

Post by caeril »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #65
zb1plus wrote: post #15

The further I go into my career, the more see the it the opposite way. I think business people are overvalued compared with most software engineers. If software engineers take the time to learn the "business", they can build their own companies that eclipse those started by the typical MBAs who view engineers as "pampered and coddled" cost centers. I think after the bubble pops, we'll see new companies that led by en…

Funny, when I was a software developer I thought the same thing. While there have been a few developers I have worked with who were total stars, most of them were distinctly average (unsurprisingly) and lacked basic curiosity. Even of the great developers, there are very few I would trust to do anything other than write software. The other thing I have noted over my career is how developers consistently underrate the…

> and lacked basic curiosity

This is an incredible take, and I have no idea where you have seen this, as it's entirely counter to my own personal experience. I have never, in my life, met a finance bro or management bro who had any non-work curiosity about anything beyond sports, cars, and sex.

Most engineers I know are immensely curious about how the world works, how the universe works, etc, and are constantly trying to learn and understand.

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#77

Post by brayhite »

caeril wrote: post #76
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, when I was a software developer I thought the same thing. While there have been a few developers I have worked with who were total stars, most of them were distinctly average (unsurprisingly) and lacked basic curiosity. Even of the great developers, there are very few I would trust to do anything other than write software. The other thing I have noted over my career is how developers consistently underrate the…

> and lacked basic curiosity This is an incredible take, and I have no idea where you have seen this, as it's entirely counter to my own personal experience. I have never, in my life, met a finance bro or management bro who had any non-work curiosity about anything beyond sports, cars, and sex. Most engineers I know are immensely curious about how the world works, how the universe works, etc, and are constantly tryin…

The “just tell me what to build, I don’t need to understand why” trope exists for a reason.

I’ve worked with a range of engineers in terms of their curiosity. In my experience, the ones who cared enough to ask or push back on decisions were exceptions, not the rule.

This doesn’t mean they weren’t curious people. It just means they weren’t curious about The BusinessTM or The MarketTM.

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#78

Post by caeril »

brayhite wrote: post #77
caeril wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and lacked basic curiosity This is an incredible take, and I have no idea where you have seen this, as it's entirely counter to my own personal experience. I have never, in my life, met a finance bro or management bro who had any non-work curiosity about anything beyond sports, cars, and sex. Most engineers I know are immensely curious about how the world works, how the universe works, etc, and are constantly tryin…

The “just tell me what to build, I don’t need to understand why” trope exists for a reason. I’ve worked with a range of engineers in terms of their curiosity. In my experience, the ones who cared enough to ask or push back on decisions were exceptions, not the rule. This doesn’t mean they weren’t curious people. It just means they weren’t curious about The BusinessTM or The MarketTM.

> “just tell me what to build, I don’t need to understand why”

I suspect that insofar as this exists, it's because when junior engineers question the utility of the requirements or user stories, they are told specifically to stfu because nerds don't understand business. Over time, the message get received?

That said, I've very rarely seen an engineer like this. In fact, I frequently encounter the opposite: the sterotypical asperger's who doesn't know when they're being rude with their probing.

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#79

Post by therealdrag0 »

sharpy wrote: post #29
rKarpinski wrote: post #10

"Engineers have been spoiled rotten for the last two decades[...] employers offered unlimited PTO" In what world does unlimited PTO spoil engineers? It removes the companies liability for vacation days and shames employees into taking less time off.

Very true. My previous employeer offered use it or lose it 6 weeks. I used it all. My current employeer offers unlimited PTO. I take 3 weeks at max...

Create a spreadsheet to track it yourself. Set a goal and make sure you hit it. If your previous job gave you 6 weeks then set that as your goal now too.

Re: Dear CTO: it's not 2015 anymore

#80

Post by therealdrag0 »

sudofail wrote: post #13
rKarpinski wrote: post #10

"Engineers have been spoiled rotten for the last two decades[...] employers offered unlimited PTO" In what world does unlimited PTO spoil engineers? It removes the companies liability for vacation days and shames employees into taking less time off.

I've had "unlimited PTO" for most of my 15 year career. I've never been able to take at most, 3 weeks off due to the reasons you mentioned.

I have unlimited and I set myself a goal for 25 days a year, which I usually hit, not including company holidays (~11).
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