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US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

reuters.com

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Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#71
post #47

My Tesla routinely tries to kill me on absolutely normal California roads in normal sunny conditions, especially when there are cars parked on the side of the road (it often brakes thinking I'm about to crash into them, or even swerves into them thinking that's the "real" lane). Elon's Unsupervised FSD dreams are a good bit off. I do hope they happen though.

And what if the car swerves, and you aren't able to correct in time and end up killing someone?

Is that your fault or the car's?

I would bet that since it's your car, and you're using a knowingly unproven technology, it would be your fault?

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#72
post #40

Will the review assess overall mortality of the vehicles compared to similar cars, and overall mortality while FSD is in use?

I get where you’re coming from and would also be interested to see, but based on the clips I’ve seen that wouldn’t be enough in this case. Of course the bias is inherent in what people choose to post (not normal and not terrible/litigable), but I think there’s enough at this point to perceive a stable pattern.

Long story short, my argument is this: it doesn’t matter if you reduce serious crashes from 100PPM to 50PPM if 25PPM of those are new crash sources, speaking from a psychological and sociological perspective. Everyone should know that driving drunk, driving distracted, driving in bad weather, and in rural areas at dawn or dusk is dangerous, and takes appropriate precautions. But what do you do if your car might crash because someone ahead flashed their high beams, or because the sun was reflecting off another car in an unusual way? Could you really load up your kids and take your hands off the wheel knowing that at any moment you might hit an unexpected edge condition?

Self driving cars are (presumably!) hard enough to trust already, since you’re giving away so much control. There’s a reason planes have to be way more than “better, statistically speaking” — we expect them to be nearly flawless, safety-wise.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#73
post #71
post #47

My Tesla routinely tries to kill me on absolutely normal California roads in normal sunny conditions, especially when there are cars parked on the side of the road (it often brakes thinking I'm about to crash into them, or even swerves into them thinking that's the "real" lane). Elon's Unsupervised FSD dreams are a good bit off. I do hope they happen though.

And what if the car swerves, and you aren't able to correct in time and end up killing someone? Is that your fault or the car's? I would bet that since it's your car, and you're using a knowingly unproven technology, it would be your fault?

The driver’s fault. Tesla never accepts liability.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#74
post #72
post #40

Will the review assess overall mortality of the vehicles compared to similar cars, and overall mortality while FSD is in use?

I get where you’re coming from and would also be interested to see, but based on the clips I’ve seen that wouldn’t be enough in this case. Of course the bias is inherent in what people choose to post (not normal and not terrible/litigable), but I think there’s enough at this point to perceive a stable pattern. Long story short, my argument is this: it doesn’t matter if you reduce serious crashes from 100PPM to 50PPM…

> But what do you do if your car might crash because someone ahead flashed their high beams, or because the sun was reflecting off another car in an unusual way?

These are -- like drunk driving, driving distract, and driving in bad weather -- things that actually do cause accidents with human drivers.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#75
post #47

My Tesla routinely tries to kill me on absolutely normal California roads in normal sunny conditions, especially when there are cars parked on the side of the road (it often brakes thinking I'm about to crash into them, or even swerves into them thinking that's the "real" lane). Elon's Unsupervised FSD dreams are a good bit off. I do hope they happen though.

[flagged]

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#76
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that’d be the interesting figure: How many deaths per million miles driven? How does Tesla’s full self driving stack up against human drivers?

Even that is not good enough, because the "autopilot" usually is not engaged in challenging conditions making any direct comparisons not really reliable. You need similar roads in simila weather and similar time of the day for approximating good comparison.

How many of the 45,000 deaths on US roads( and an order of magnitude more injuries) occur due to 'challenging conditions' ?

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#77

Only the US government can allow corporations to beta test unproven technology on the public. Governments should carry out comprehensive tests on a self-driving car's claimed capabilities. This is the same as cars without proven passenger safety (Euro NCAP) aren't allowed to be on roads carrying passengers.

If it takes 3 months to approve where steel rocket falls you might as well give up iterating something as complex as FSD.

There are industry standards for this stuff. ISO 21448, UL-4600, UNECE R157 for example, and even commercial certification programs like the one run by TÜV Süd for European homologation. It's a deliberate series of decisions on Tesla's part to make their regulatory life as difficult as possible.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#78
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On many roads if a deer jumps across the road at the wrong time there’s literally nothing you can do. You can’t always drive at 30mph on back country roads just because a deer might hop out at you.

World of difference between, 30, 40, 50 and 60. Feels like something I have noticed between west and east coast drivers. Latter really send it on country turns and just trust the road. West coast, particularly montana, when vision is reduced, speed slows down. Just too many animals or road obstacles (eg: rocks, planks of wood) to just trust the road.

> West coast, particularly montana

Montana is not "West coast".

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#79
post #47

My Tesla routinely tries to kill me on absolutely normal California roads in normal sunny conditions, especially when there are cars parked on the side of the road (it often brakes thinking I'm about to crash into them, or even swerves into them thinking that's the "real" lane). Elon's Unsupervised FSD dreams are a good bit off. I do hope they happen though.

[flagged]

Emergency breaking will sure as hell kill you or at least the person behind you when you’re going 75 or 80 in the first lane.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#80
"Move fast and kill people"

Look, I don't know who needs to hear this, but just stop supporting this asshole's companies. You don't need internet when you're camping, you don't need a robot to do your laundry, you don't need twitter, you can find more profitable and reliable places to invest.

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