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Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

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Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#71

Post by doe_eyes »

AlbertCory wrote: post #61

The "Nobel Prize in Economics" was not one of the original ones endowed by Alfred Nobel. As the name implies, it was created by a bank. Is there any reason Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Elon Musk can't endow a Prize in Computer Science? That would end the controversy about whether AI is "Physics."

> Is there any reason Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Elon Musk can't endow a Prize in Computer Science?

Even without searching, I'm sure they back a number of organizations that do endow various awards, scholarships, and so on. I doubt they could come up with a "flagship" one that would be as prestigious as the Nobel Prize, though. Our attitudes toward modern-day "industrialists" and their pet projects are quite different today. Whatever controversies surround the Nobel Prize, they would be many times worse for the Bezos-Gates-Zuck-Musk Medal of Merit.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#72

Post by ninjagoo »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #65
coliveira wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Taiwan is literally an independent country, although they promote a policy of strategic vagueness about this in hopes that it will discourage China from launching an invasion. The arguments China makes for its ownership of Taiwan are no more defensible, and arguably less, than Portugal's justifications for maintaining ownership of Goa.

Well, by the OP's naming standards, it's Taiwan (Republic of China) that is the primary entity, and they have the rights to all of China :-)

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#73

Post by AlbertCory »

ninjagoo wrote: post #68
AlbertCory wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Krugman is controversial at times Kind of like saying Lysenko was controversial at times. He's not "controversial," he's just a bloviator. His credentials as a serious economist expired long ago when he signed up with the leftist team and agreed to never challenge them again, on anything. When you have to spend many words on explaining the "context" in which someone's quotes should be viewed, you are losing.

> His credentials as a serious economist expired long ago when he signed up with the leftist team You might be (unpleasantly) surprised by the emphasis of the current year's nobel economics prize winners on the importance of societal institutions and the need for inclusivity to advance the wealth of nations :-)

I'd be more surprised if you linked to any of Krugman's recent columns and I actually thought they were worthwhile.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#74

Post by Eumenes »

AlbertCory wrote: post #56
CyberRymden wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Krugman is controversial at times, but he is a serious economist. The quote is also taken out of two important contexts. 1. It was not a serious academic prediction but rather part of a fluff piece by the Times about future precitions. 2. The quote also exists in the context of a debate that was raging during the advent of the internet whether or not the internet would hyper charge productivity and economic growth. I…

> Krugman is controversial at times Kind of like saying Lysenko was controversial at times. He's not "controversial," he's just a bloviator. His credentials as a serious economist expired long ago when he signed up with the leftist team and agreed to never challenge them again, on anything. When you have to spend many words on explaining the "context" in which someone's quotes should be viewed, you are losing.

Indeed. He is more politico and less economist these days: https://www.nytimes.com/column/paul-krugman

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#75

Post by AlbertCory »

doe_eyes wrote: post #71
AlbertCory wrote: post #61

The "Nobel Prize in Economics" was not one of the original ones endowed by Alfred Nobel. As the name implies, it was created by a bank. Is there any reason Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Elon Musk can't endow a Prize in Computer Science? That would end the controversy about whether AI is "Physics."

> Is there any reason Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Elon Musk can't endow a Prize in Computer Science? Even without searching, I'm sure they back a number of organizations that do endow various awards, scholarships, and so on. I doubt they could come up with a "flagship" one that would be as prestigious as the Nobel Prize, though. Our attitudes toward modern-day "industrialists" and their pet projects…

This seems kinda confused. The Nobel is now controversial because after all, Nobel invented dynamite and he wanted to expunge his guilt. Yet you said it was "prestigious" -- but you want to cancel that, regardless?

But somehow the Nobel Prize in Computer Science would be too controversial even given all that.

OK, I get that you don't like Bezos-Gates-Zuck-Musk. Maybe you're just jealous.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#76

Post by dash2 »

coliveira wrote: post #63
inglor_cz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't read my mind well if you think that I am against China defending itself. Most nations have an army for that purpose. I am against China performing threatening exercises near Taiwan and against China claiming the majority of the South China Sea for themselves when hundreds of millions of other people live on its shores. Ever heard of "the Nine Dashes"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line That has zi…

[flagged]

Clearly Taiwan does not want to be "defended" by China, but is rather desperately asking for defence against China. Also, the international court ruled against China's claim to control everything behind the 9-dash line. It's not true that China needs that line to defend itself - it has done so perfectly well since 1947 without it.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#77

Post by cherryteastain »

vlovich123 wrote: post #28
MichaelZuo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it makes sense to discuss it relative to the ‘political and ruling class’? Since they pretty much all have party cards already. And the moment they give it up means they’re kicked out from any decision making, from what I understand. Yes internal factions within the party can arbitrarily punish each other for made up reasons all day long, every day of the year. So in a sense it was already authoritarian without…

The kind of punishment authoritarian regimes dish out is much more severe in ways that you couldn’t do in the US (imprisonment, seizure of assets, death). In fact I’d argue it’s the only kind that matters. Authoritarian regimes rarely go after normal people unless they speak out actively against the government (which China does) and instead focus on controlling and censoring anyone in a position of power and let the…

US does all the nasty crap China does. Less brazenly, but it's certainly there.

> imprisonment

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_cam...

The Guantanamo Bay detention camp is a United States military prison...As of August 2024, at least 780 persons from 48 countries have been detained at the camp since its creation, of whom 740 had been transferred elsewhere, 9 died in custody, and 30 remain; only 16 detainees have ever been charged by the U.S. with criminal offenses.

> seizure of assets

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit...

In the United States, civil forfeiture (also called civil asset forfeiture or civil judicial forfeiture)[1] is a process in which law enforcement officers take assets from people who are suspected of involvement with crime or illegal activity without necessarily charging the owners with wrongdoing...To get back the seized property, owners must prove it was not involved in criminal activity.

> death

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Un...

> go after normal people unless they speak out actively against the government

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#78

Post by cyberax »

coliveira wrote: post #57
inglor_cz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between oligarchy that deliberately maintains balance of power and interests between, say, dozens or hundreds of prominent players, and a one-man rule where the "courtiers" are just richer than an average citizen, but equally subjugated to the Dear Leader, is enormous. Both Russia and China developed since 2000 from one to the other, and I wonder what the end game will be. In Russian case, the developm…

[flagged]

The problem is not the army, but military posturing. It can too easily transition into an actual war.

Case in point: Russia. Putin's ratings were falling, and he decided to commit "a small victorious war", based on faulty assumptions. And his assumptions were faulty because all the secret agencies were filled with yes-men who were just telling Putin what he wanted to hear.

That's the problem with the authoritarian regimes: they don't have people who can stop the Dear Leader if the Dear Leader starts seriously believing in conspiracy theories and/or just goes mad with power.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#79

Post by blackhawkC17 »

AlbertCory wrote: post #61

The "Nobel Prize in Economics" was not one of the original ones endowed by Alfred Nobel. As the name implies, it was created by a bank. Is there any reason Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Elon Musk can't endow a Prize in Computer Science? That would end the controversy about whether AI is "Physics."

> The Breakthrough Prize, renowned as the “Oscars of Science”, recognizes the world’s top scientists working in the fundamental sciences – the disciplines that ask the biggest questions and find the deepest explanations.

> Each prize is $3 million and presented in the fields of Life Sciences, Fundamental Physics and Mathematics.

> The Breakthrough Prizes were founded by Sergey Brin, Priscilla Chan and Mark Zuckerberg, Yuri and Julia Milner, and Anne Wojcicki. The Prizes have been sponsored by the personal foundations established by Sergey Brin, Priscilla Chan and Mark Zuckerberg, Ma Huateng, Jack Ma, Yuri and Julia Milner, and Anne Wojcicki.

https://breakthroughprize.org/About

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#80

Post by MichaelZuo »

vlovich123 wrote: post #45
MichaelZuo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the party membership is revoked first, then the person wouldn’t be part of the ‘political and ruling class’ any longer. Then they would just be a citizen who might formerly have been some bigshot, i.e. the second case. It still doesn’t seem to make sense to discuss any increases relative to the first case, since in 2012 it was already unlimitedly authoritarian.

Revoking party membership doesn’t mean much necessarily if you still wield influence and power. Imagine if Barack Obama or Bill Clinton were kicked out by Joe Biden trying to consolidate power. They’d still have a voice and be influential outside of their party membership. That’s why Xi needs to imprison his rivals and root them out beyond just revoking their membership. And again I’ll point you to the example made o…

This is getting too into the weeds, of course individual situations can be analyzed, but this doesn’t apply to ‘the political and ruling class’ as a whole.

To be more precise in wording, the net increase, or decrease, in net negative authoritarian decision making is what matters for me and probably most HN readers.

Since this increase, or decrease, may be positive and negative to varying degrees for various people and factions, it’s practically impossible to tell if it’s net negative for the class as a whole.

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