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Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

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Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#71

Post by netdevnet »

bugtodiffer wrote: post #59
zeroq wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till you hear about Typescript, you know adding types to ECMAScript, like Macromedia did some 20 years ago. :) Being in the industry for 20+ years and starting as a teenager making games in Flash it makes really hard for me to treat webdev seriously with all their revolutionary innovations. At work I often encounter a resistance to a tech or solution I propose, because "there hasen't been any substational contri…

Today I value web stuff for one thing and one thing only: they run in the best sandbox we have. I can run untrusted programs from hackernews folks without worrying! I wouldn't do that with native code of course, way too easy to hack me. But they won't waste a browser 0-day on random HN readers... Whatever can be done in the web, I usually like to do it there as no-body has to trust my code then.

> I can run untrusted programs from hackernews folks without worrying

The assumption is that native code has virtually unrestricted access to your system while JS programs don't, which is true. But if the untrusted JS program is wrapped up in web extension, in 2024, it could do almost as much damage than native code especially since most non-techies don't have much of value in their machines. The value exists on walled sites

Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#72

Post by netdevnet »

smusamashah wrote: post #49
urin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A notable feature is the ability to synchronize code selection with visual selection in the preview. Since this extension has minimal functionality, the codebase is very small, making future expansions easy. It is designed to reflect changes made in the preview back to the code, so enhancing the editing capabilities within the preview may be beneficial in the future.

This is useful. I am occasionally day dreaming about moving my static site from Hugo to pure html which I write/edit myself. Do these features depend on complexity of the html or that doesn't matter? Does Javascript work in live preview?

Why do you fantasise about writing pure html manually for an entire website? Haven't you done it before?

Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#73

Post by nicoburns »

bugtodiffer wrote: post #57
stevage wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We abandoned HTML CSS and JS websites that used to work just fine Hmm. Have you actually done much web development in the last 10 years? Building websites with raw HTML, CSS and JS 10 years ago was very much not "just fine". There's a reason frameworks were invented.

Oh I think it is very much "just fine", but people have requirements which make things too complicated. I find it way harder to work in a React app than a few .html and .js files. TypeScript's cool though.

Most people working professionally as web developers have limited ability to reduce the requirements and have to implement what their company ask for. At that point having something to manage the complexity is much better than not.

Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#74

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

netdevnet wrote: post #67
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider "not fine" about websites written in "just" html, CSS, and js?

You can't reuse pieces of UI functionality (a bundle of specific html, css and js) unless did copypasta which is obviously awful. Sharing business logic across different areas of an application becomes much harder and you can't non-trivially write and run tests across areas of your application because you are just using html,css and js. And the big monster: state. Sharing state safely across different areas of an app…

So, instead of "Building websites...", would it be fairer to say "Building some types of web app..."?

Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#75

Post by urin »

It seems there have been many opinions questioning why a tool for editing pure HTML is being developed now. Here is my current view on this matter:

These days, it's rare to directly handle HTML files on the frontend of web applications, and placing key elements using absolute or relative coordinates is also uncommon, so the use cases for this extension are currently quite limited.

However, it could be somewhat useful in areas where web technologies are not yet widely adopted but need to be implemented simply. When creating individual components, such as with Vue.js, the real-time preview might become valuable. It could also be helpful for building non-application content like simple landing pages.

Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#76

Post by politelemon »

urin wrote: post #70
jayflux wrote: post #62

Nice extension, it may be worth in the readme explaining how it’s different to https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-livepreview which has been around for a long time and maintained by Microsoft.

I have updated the README to address similar comments and issues. https://github.com/urin/vscode-web-visual-editor?tab=readme-...

Thanks, good work on this extension.

Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#78

Post by rty32 »

stevage wrote: post #47
vivzkestrel wrote: post #18

Are we trying to reinvent web development? Last few years have been wild. We abandoned HTML CSS and JS websites that used to work just fine and ran after frontend component frameworks and now the circle is getting completed by building tools and extensions we had 20 yrs ago

>We abandoned HTML CSS and JS websites that used to work just fine Hmm. Have you actually done much web development in the last 10 years? Building websites with raw HTML, CSS and JS 10 years ago was very much not "just fine". There's a reason frameworks were invented.

This. A not so great analogy is you can always drop a single php file into your /var/www/ (or even do cgi) and get your "dynamic" website running like decades ago, but people don't do that any more for any website that is not a tiny one with just a few pages (barring famous exceptions like WordPress). People realize there are good reasons to use frameworks, and often, use other languages for website backend.

Re: Show HN: A VSCode Extension to edit HTML visually in real-time

#79

Post by jeroenhd »

netdevnet wrote: post #66
vivzkestrel wrote: post #18

Are we trying to reinvent web development? Last few years have been wild. We abandoned HTML CSS and JS websites that used to work just fine and ran after frontend component frameworks and now the circle is getting completed by building tools and extensions we had 20 yrs ago

Let's be honest. Those old HTML+CSS+JS didn't have the interaction levels of modern applications. And jQuery was great until you reached a level of complexity after which it became jquery Bolognese. There are 2 main challenges: state and reusing pieces of html. Both of these are much harder in modern applications due to their complexity. Try reusing a piece of HTML using HTML+CSS+JS alone (no Node or back-end tools a…

Most "applications" I visit in my browser have no business being an application. The "clear search history" button in my start menu has no business loading a React environment with three redirects either.

Some web applications need a boatload of frontend stuff to make them usable, but I rarely encounter websites that warrant such overkill. A payslip/email subscription/car rental website with a profile page and maybe three forms I can possibly need to submit doesn't need to be a fully interactive application with loading bars and offline support, leave that stuff for the websites I visit more than once a month.

At this point React/Vue/Svelte devs are probably cheaper to hire than basic JS devs, but technology wise the amount of Javascript my browser needs to load for the most basic interactions is mind-boggling. More than the "this meeting could've been an email" meetings, I run into "this web application could've been a POST request" web pages.

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