Fragility of human relationships, not population density.
Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
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Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#72If it really was population density, it would be easy to discuss politics in urban NYC and very difficult/ rare in rural Wyoming. I don’t think that’s really the case. I suspect politics are more discussed in forums where there is more “psychological safety” where the consequence of saying a thing that others disagree with doesn’t cause a rift in the relationship (as evidenced by the “it’s hard enough for a parent to…
> If it really was population density, it would be easy to discuss politics in urban NYC and very difficult/ rare in rural Wyoming.
This assumes that the effects of population density are continuously distributed, but what if the national discourse is affected by population density in a way that shows up across the entire country?
Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Want some practice? What policies?
Pregnant women are dying because they are not getting appropriate medical care. Doctors are unwilling to give pregnant women appropriate care because they may face criminal charges. This is happening directly because of legislation that has been pushed forward exclusively by one political party in this country. So I find it hard to understand how someone can care about women's health and support these policies. I'm f…
More women will die today from vehicle related injuries than will die all year from prevented abortions.
But one topic is at the top of all the news, the other is ignored, because it's so common.
Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#74Speaking as an Indian, what's really going on is that everyone in India has lost hope in their political decisions actually impacting their lives in ways that they wish. So politics is a pretty low-stakes discussion in India, like sports teams. In America we haven't quite lost hope yet. edit: to be clear, politics does impact lives in India, but it does so in ways that are quite disconnected from individuals' politic…
Part of it is that all political parties in the USA have given up "conversion/conversation" or trying to get this "hypothetical middle" to budge.
Instead, they're both entirely geared up to get "their base out to vote" which you do by riling them up in all possible ways.
Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#75I don't often discuss politics with my niece; we've actually had physical altercations before. But I mustered some courage and brought this up to her, and she had the following to say: "The two party system forces people who advocate for issue X to also have to advocate for Y and Z, when they may really only care about X. Another factor; the decay of respect of and audiences for traiditional mass media, and the rise…
i think your niece is on to something. I'd like to develop it further. I think the problem is that when you talk politics, the subject or your position are irrelevant. You can even extend that to what the parties themselves do and say (the american uniparty has been a common complaint for many voters). Why ? At the core, the issue are the ideas that each party represents, and how those ideas label you immediately wit…
I've found that a way to side-step this is to NOT talk about solutions; because solutions are always political; but to talk about problems - and not even the causes of the problems, but the problems themselves. Discuss the problems, and "what would you do" kind of hypotheticals, and you can find common ground with almost anyone.
Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#76I think it's wealth and well-being. The easier your life becomes, the more you live in the world of ideas and abstractions. When you and most people around you need to toil daily to stay afloat, it puts things in perspective. There's also a shared bond of work and survival which can smooth things over. Politics being prominent in your life is a luxury. Even if the stakes are high for you personally, most people world…
This is it - watch people in a disaster; suddenly what needs to be done in the next minute, hour, day is clear, and politics doesn't matter.
It's like what they say about the fights in academia - they're so vicious because the stakes are so small.
Of course, nobody wants to admit this about politics (but look at the vast amount of what happens year in and year out that doesn't change at all).
Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#77If it really was population density, it would be easy to discuss politics in urban NYC and very difficult/ rare in rural Wyoming. I don’t think that’s really the case. I suspect politics are more discussed in forums where there is more “psychological safety” where the consequence of saying a thing that others disagree with doesn’t cause a rift in the relationship (as evidenced by the “it’s hard enough for a parent to…
> rather than through the lens of the broken US political parties / election system This is key, in my observation as an immigrant from Europe who's lived here ~10 years. Europe for the most part has multi-party democracies meaning that for every pet cause you might have there is a party that focuses on your cause. Larger causes get parties that might even get elected into parliament. Those larger parties still have…
> americans have this weird thing where they worship politicians instead of treating them as disposable public servants who exist at the mercy of your vote
As a British person I also find this weird. There was a tiny amount of it with Boris Johnson and that was mirrored in the very small cult of personality that rose up around Jeremy Corbyn. But for the most part politicians of all stripes are considered with mild disdain and actual membership of a political party is seen as probably a bit weird.
In America... rallies! Thousands of people actually pay to go and listen to this self-aggrandising nonsense. It's very odd.
In the UK I usually voted for the liberal democrats or the greens because each appealed to my views in different ways. Occasionally held my nose and voted Labour when "get the conservatives out" seemed the most important thing. Here in Aus, when I get citizenship, I will feel even more free to vote for smaller parties because we have preference voting. I can (and do) discuss politics with friends who have different views, though as my friends mostly skew liberal (ironically) this means none of them will be voting for the Liberal Party...
Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#78For a lot of people in the US, politics has become very personal. I believe that some policy decisions have become a direct threat to my health and I can try to discuss those policies calmly but I'm not good at covering my aggravation. I'd say that everyone has gotten increasingly disdainful of the 'other side'. I know I have - I'm not proud of it but I'm also not a good actor. I was in a message group recently and s…
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Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#79If it really was population density, it would be easy to discuss politics in urban NYC and very difficult/ rare in rural Wyoming. I don’t think that’s really the case. I suspect politics are more discussed in forums where there is more “psychological safety” where the consequence of saying a thing that others disagree with doesn’t cause a rift in the relationship (as evidenced by the “it’s hard enough for a parent to…
> If it really was population density, it would be easy to discuss politics in urban NYC and very difficult/ rare in rural Wyoming. This assumes that the effects of population density are continuously distributed, but what if the national discourse is affected by population density in a way that shows up across the entire country?
It turns out that population density is highly correlated with Democrat / Republican voting behavior.
But I was pointing out that the article/title is easily refuted. It’s not as simple as that heuristic.
Re: Is population density the reason Americans can't discuss politics?
#80If it really was population density, it would be easy to discuss politics in urban NYC and very difficult/ rare in rural Wyoming. I don’t think that’s really the case. I suspect politics are more discussed in forums where there is more “psychological safety” where the consequence of saying a thing that others disagree with doesn’t cause a rift in the relationship (as evidenced by the “it’s hard enough for a parent to…
I think lack of good practice is a big part of it, and I also would add that a lot of the "practice" input our brains get comes from online debate culture and/or watching politicians and surrogates acting in bad faith. That means there's a lot of baggage and bad habits lying around that folks can easily and reflexively fall back, on and it really increases the burden on someone trying to have a good discussion.
Yeah, this reminds me that “politics” is easily confused with tribalism.
Politics at its core is about the organization of who/what gets the government’s attention and resources. It has completely enveloped tribalism, becoming something much closer to a sport/entertainment, especially when people passively consume it rather than actively investigate.