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BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

reuters.com

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Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#71

Post by nradov »

pfdietz wrote: post #51
gottorf wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the same "implicit subsidy" goes for literally every facet of human activity. Do builders of wind turbines and solar farms also pay commensurately for the pollution in the manufacturing and development process? Everything is implicitly subsidized because every action that any living being takes affects some other living being and the ecosystem as a whole, because we all live on the same planet. It's a meaningles…

What an exercise in false equivalence. Does every facet of human activity have the same impact as CO2 emission from fossil fuel combustion?

Why focus on CO2 emissions? That's only one aspect of pollution.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#72

Post by pfdietz »

nradov wrote: post #71
pfdietz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an exercise in false equivalence. Does every facet of human activity have the same impact as CO2 emission from fossil fuel combustion?

Why focus on CO2 emissions? That's only one aspect of pollution.

Because of its enormous global impact.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#73

Post by tcfhgj »

stonogo wrote: post #47
jimbob45 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it not seem like electric vehicles will eventually swallow the world? It feels like it's 1900 and you're fighting tooth-and-nail to combat horse maltreatment while the rest of the world is surging toward a car-laden future. Would it not make more sense to simply focus efforts on EV adoption?

I think EVs are the 80% solution. They're great in cities and in suburbs. If you regularly make longer trips, they're a massive pain in the ass, primarily due to the poor-quality charging infrastructure. There are vast swaths of America where someone is already trucking gasoline and diesel to fuel stations but there's no reliable expectation of charging infrastructure of any kind, much less high-quality charging. It'…

EVs aren't great in cities. Cycling and public transportation is

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#74

Post by ksec »

schiffern wrote: post #4

Pioneering systems theorist Donella Meadows makes a highly salient point. The problem with BP isn't because there are "bad people" at the top, and the solution isn't to replace them with "good people." The problem is that the decision-makers are constrained to act a certain way . If they made different decisions then.... those people won't be the decision-makers anymore! The same is true for politicians, consumers, e…

>those people won't be the decision-makers anymore! The same is true for politicians, consumers, etc.

Is that another way of saying the "Market" will dictate everything?

I never thought about it this way in terms of politics. But may be some food for thought.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#75

Post by 7thaccount »

njtransit wrote: post #53
david38 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have to pay to clean up your mess to live in a world the way it was before you polluted it, it’s a subsidy

But you don’t know the cleanup cost yet, so how can you put a dollar amount on the subsidy?

There are estimates for the social cost of carbon. It isn't super exact.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#76

Post by Spooky23 »

delecti wrote: post #64
Spooky23 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing changed. We’re literally in an auto market flooded with EVs. Solar is a ROI positive investment that is gobbling up farmland in a problematic way. If you’re a geek, you probably got hyped up by Elon when he was saving the world with electric cars. Now that he’s regressed to his effort to offer himself for impregnation services to repopulate and installing fascist dictatorships, the electric car stuff has gone…

Based on some back of the envelope math, if the US met 100% of its electricity needs with solar, it'd take about 1.6% as much area as the US currently has farmland (22k sqmi vs 1.4mm sqmi). Considering some solar is on non-arable land, and how much excess corn the US grows (enough that some is turned back into fuel), and that 1.6% ballpark, the idea that it's problematic that we're turning some farmland into solar do…

It’s a problem that you don’t see when you look at aggregate numbers and don’t look at the future.

You tend to need commercial solar installations nearish to people - projects in say Nebraska have a lower ROI than say New York or Massachusetts. There’s much more limited amounts of land and farmable land in particular.

With climate change, aquifer depletion and other factors, farmland imo is a strategic resource that should be protected. The corn bounty is not likely to continue forever.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#77

Post by numpad0 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #19
linkjuice4all wrote: post #8

It's depressing to see companies moving back towards a carbon-burning future. It seemed like electric vehicles, battery technology, and solar power advancement was finally starting to kill the market for ICE engines and 'dirty' thermal power. Between reversions like this, RTO mandates, and global conflicts that seem to include blowing up oil refineries it seems like there's absolutely no hope or interest from any maj…

Does it not seem like electric vehicles will eventually swallow the world? It feels like it's 1900 and you're fighting tooth-and-nail to combat horse maltreatment while the rest of the world is surging toward a car-laden future. Would it not make more sense to simply focus efforts on EV adoption?

Does, but also does seem to me that a lot of parties were in for potential to disrupt top of the food chain of car industry, and now that it became clear that it does the opposite of that, they're not interested in it anymore.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#78

Post by cortesoft »

FpUser wrote: post #66
cortesoft wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we aren't actually unique in this respect, except in the sense that we are able to see our own doom but still not able to act on it. In essence, our extinction (if it were to happen) would be because we were unable to solve the collective action problem... each individual choosing their own best course dooms the entire species. When looked at it this way, lots of species go extinct for this reason; resour…

>"...individuals would need to sacrifice for the greater good of the species." This old song. I am all for a sacrifice... As long as it starts from the top. Wake me up when that happens.

I am not disagreeing with this statement, and don't think we can solve the collective action problem by just choosing as individuals to sacrifice (that is what makes is a collective action problem). It would take societal change to happen.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#79

Post by stonethrowaway »

tw04 wrote: post #7

> as investors focused on near-term returns rather than the energy transition. If the justification for burning the earth to the ground continues to be “investors focused on short term returns” then governments need to start telling companies like BP they are legally and financially responsible for the effects those policies have on insurance rates and everything else. At some point if they can’t do the right thing b…

Yeaaaahh you keep saying that to yourself.

The lack of action by people while expecting the government to do something is farcical.

“There ought to be a law!” the outraged but impotent mob cries - and there will be one, when you take matters into your own hands and write it, just like the people who established this government did.

Re: BP abandons goal to cut oil output, resets strategy

#80

Post by Caius-Cosades »

linkjuice4all wrote: post #8

It's depressing to see companies moving back towards a carbon-burning future. It seemed like electric vehicles, battery technology, and solar power advancement was finally starting to kill the market for ICE engines and 'dirty' thermal power. Between reversions like this, RTO mandates, and global conflicts that seem to include blowing up oil refineries it seems like there's absolutely no hope or interest from any maj…

Expecting in magical science to magically break laws of physics wasn't the winning strategy. The energy exchange rate was never there despite all the virtue signalling.
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