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Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

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Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#71

Post by bsilvereagle »

whimsicalism wrote: post #32
curiouscavalier wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they basic RGB cameras or do they collect depth as well? Would even know if they decided to change the system to start collecting depth data, even if comparisons are to flat images? Honest questions, as that’s where my concerns are. Boil the frog. If they start to collect more, it’s not as simple as “they already have my picture.” Should there be a breach, I can’t easily change my face. I’m generally of the opini…

the ones i’ve seen claim they aren’t storing the data after verifying the identity

The signage claims the _image_, i.e. the pixels, is deleted but makes no claims about embeddings, biometric measurements, etc that are generated from the image.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#72

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

beaglesss wrote: post #49
LightHugger wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting opinion but there is no dystopian literature i know of that worries about banning mass surveillance. Mass surveillance on the other hand features very prominently.

Mass surveillance played out privately means every plated cop car can be tracked, every noted confidential informant and every detective, tax stasi, etc can be traced. This is already becoming the case on networked mapping apps where the road pirates are losing their revenue. It's more of a worry for the state than citizens IMO.

There's still information a.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#73

Post by AzzyHN »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

I was appalled to see TSA facial recognition scanners at airports recently, where instead of checking your ID and boarding pass they scan your face. Almost everyone simply accepted the new process instead of opting out. I’m not sure how the eventual forced violation of biometrics can be stopped when most people don’t care.

I grew up in a post 9-11 world. To me, flying has always been something involving security and federal oversight. I have no problems with the federal government knowing that I have taken flight A123 to Chicago, or something. If I wanted to travel incognito, I'd take a train, or perhaps a greyhound bus.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#74

Post by nine_k »

krapp wrote: post #53
AlbertCory wrote: post #31

The issue with governments implementing mass warrantless surveillance is not training or standards, NIST or otherwise. It should be straight-out illegal. Governments do not have "free speech" rights. As for private citizens doing it: I think there are already sufficient laws about recording people without their consent. You can hire someone to stand on a corner and watch for a specific person to walk by, but a law pr…

Governments do have free speech rights. Those rights may be limited compared to the rights of private citizens, but they do exist.

Democratic governments have privileges bestowed on them by their constituences. I don't remember where the US Constitution gives any branch of government "free speech" rights. It definitely has some protections for speech of officials in Congress and in courts.

Authoritarian governments, of course, have all the rights they manage to grab. Look what Russian officials say. I suppose that North Korean officials can say anything their bosses tell them to say, any public opinion notwithstanding.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#75

Post by lsllc »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #30
lsllc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently reentered the US after a short vacation (the first time I'd been out of the country for a couple of years) and the CBP now have cameras/face scanners. The agent said hello using my name before I'd even handed over my passport -- in fact I don't think he even looked at it. I assume they must be face-matching on the passport photo database.

Interesting, the camera is usually a bit behind the officer, perpendicular to the lane. Did you walk past the station or was it pointed towards you?

I walked up to the window (into the view of the camera) he said "Welcome home $NAME" as put my passport on the counter!

The camera was right by the counter, not behind the officer.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#76

Post by curiouscavalier »

BadHumans wrote: post #61
curiouscavalier wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but those are also different agencies, so at a minimum you’re spreading the data (and risk surface). My concerns are generally (though not entirely) around data breaches rather than the collector. And sadly we have ample evidence that federal agencies aren’t always great at securing PII. But more to the point the reason for doing it is there, for better or worse — want a passport? Have a picture taken. I…

I'm certainty not advocating for more of this security theater but the genuine and imaginary concerns meld together when we talk about security so I'm more trying to ascertain what's the realistic risk here. I agree that government is awful at storing PII and it is only a matter of time before biometrics get leaked assuming they haven't already.

That’s a reasonable point. And I’ll admit I’m expressing more of an opinion on privacy in general. I don’t know what the real risk is, immediately or over time and it would vary to an extent by individual. I suspect, again uninformed, it’s fairly small for most people.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#77

Post by beaglesss »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #72
beaglesss wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass surveillance played out privately means every plated cop car can be tracked, every noted confidential informant and every detective, tax stasi, etc can be traced. This is already becoming the case on networked mapping apps where the road pirates are losing their revenue. It's more of a worry for the state than citizens IMO.

There's still information a.

A? Asymmetry?

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#78

Post by hammock »

giantg2 wrote: post #26
rty32 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't "appalled" but definitely felt uneasy about it. I am aware I could opt out and read all the discussions about it here on HN. I didn't do anything about it, despite being a very privacy conscious person (using firefox, use max adblocking/anti tracking etc). Why? I don't want to be an asshole, hold the queue and cause trouble for a TSA agent who is just doing the job and likely have no idea what "opt out" mean…

If you have a passport, they already do. If you have a driver's license or state ID, they most likely do.

The TSA scanners use a hi res stereoscopic camera to take a 3D photo of your facial features. It's not the same as your passport photo

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#79

Post by hammock »

rty32 wrote: post #17
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

I was appalled to see TSA facial recognition scanners at airports recently, where instead of checking your ID and boarding pass they scan your face. Almost everyone simply accepted the new process instead of opting out. I’m not sure how the eventual forced violation of biometrics can be stopped when most people don’t care.

I wasn't "appalled" but definitely felt uneasy about it. I am aware I could opt out and read all the discussions about it here on HN. I didn't do anything about it, despite being a very privacy conscious person (using firefox, use max adblocking/anti tracking etc). Why? I don't want to be an asshole, hold the queue and cause trouble for a TSA agent who is just doing the job and likely have no idea what "opt out" mean…

You are not an asshole for opting out. If I see someone opting out at an airport they will get a silent nod of approbation. It is extremely easy and does not hold anyone else up. If anything it holds you up more - this is the case with naked scanner opt-outs, where you step aside and the people behind you can thank you for there being one less person in front of them on the way to get their junk photographed.

Furthermore, the TSA scanners use a hi res stereoscopic camera to take a 3D photo of your facial features. It's not the same as your passport photo or a regular CCTV camera

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#80

Post by hammock »

beaglesss wrote: post #42
mixmastamyk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, the camera is usually a bit behind the officer, perpendicular to the lane. Did you walk past the station or was it pointed towards you?

Yes this seems variable based on point of entry. I had (have?) a flagged passport for awhile and I never got the oh shit face from CBP until they scanned my passport.

Curious, why are you flagged? Visited an unsavory country?
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