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How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

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Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#71

Post by crusso »

yock wrote: post #17

This reads like a allegory for Hell. How to love working 18 hours a day could almost be the title of a satire novel on the failings of modern office life. The fact that she lived it and looks back on it fondly doesn't, in my mind, reflect positively on her or her employer.

I just don't understand the hostility toward someone who has worked ridiculously hard and has achieved a demonstrable level of success. She did it, she talks about it, she's happy with the choices she made.

Why so judgmental?

Working hard at things increases your likelihood of success. Is that notion in question here at HN? True, there is a diminishing point of returns for everyone where working hard doesn't yield more returns or even produces overall negative returns... but how can you categorically decry her and her choice to push her own limits?

I worked crazy hours before I got married and have a lot of financial and experiential success to show for it. I did it then out of choice. I don't do it now out of choice. Was I doing something inherently wrong when I was younger and working so hard?

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#73

Post by crusso »

famousactress wrote: post #56

Step 3. Grant employees one must-have freedom. Silly bullshit. First of all, by definition you have to grant all must-have freedoms. If that's not a deal-breaker than they're not must-haves.. but the idea that family dinner is a gift from your employer is ridiculous.

The people at Google have and are continuing to attempt significant "outlier" levels of financial and software technological success.

Should they expect to work a 9-5 schedule?

If achieving success at a level that might require that you to sacrifice a bunch of your family life is your thing, then I guess that Google might be a place for you. If it isn't, then you don't really have to work there.

So much vitriol in this thread toward a person who made the choice to work hard and be a part of a company that expects its people to produce. It's not like there are Google slave camps where they put you on an island, take away your passport, and won't let you leave.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#74

Post by eitally »

PakG1 wrote: post #50
unwind wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it reads like pure insanity. That you would only be "granted" to have time for your family if you're on the brink of burn-out is ... horrible. I'm pretty sure that's not the general guideline about how Google operates, not sure if there's some editing and/or language barrier here.

I don't think there is any such barrier. I've read multiple articles from multiple publications about the same Marissa Mayer, and they all have the same anecdotes and themes. If it's so consistent across multiple publications, you have to think she really does say all these things. Whether she walks the talk is another question, but she's probably a freak of nature who is really able to do so.

Moreover, the legend of the über-productive employee who never sleeps is a double-edged sword and can demotivate the employees that person touches in ways that far outweigh the direct positive impact to the company that person has. As stated above, it's one thing to work 12-16hr days during start-up phase, but if you're doing it as a matter of fact when you're a 30,000 person company, frankly you're doing it wrong -- even if you're the founder, owner, board member or C-level executive. Leading via exemplary personal performance and ethics is one thing; driving those values throughout the organization is far more important.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#75

Post by njx »

evangineer wrote: post #64
njx wrote: post #37

Meditation is the key for me. I think more and more people especially people in the Tech and involved with startups should practice it. I work 12 hrs daily but spend around 1-2 hrs in meditation and it seems to flush out everything.

That's 1-2 hrs in meditation per day? What particular type of meditation do you practice? How long have you been practicing?

Yes avg 90 mins daily. Recently I have been doing Kriya yoga but have been doing meditation for longer than 10 yrs

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#76

Post by ori_b »

crusso wrote: post #73
famousactress wrote: post #56

Step 3. Grant employees one must-have freedom. Silly bullshit. First of all, by definition you have to grant all must-have freedoms. If that's not a deal-breaker than they're not must-haves.. but the idea that family dinner is a gift from your employer is ridiculous.

The people at Google have and are continuing to attempt significant "outlier" levels of financial and software technological success. Should they expect to work a 9-5 schedule? If achieving success at a level that might require that you to sacrifice a bunch of your family life is your thing, then I guess that Google might be a place for you. If it isn't, then you don't really have to work there. So much vitriol in th…

As someone who works at Google, I can say that (at least within my team) people do not tend to work unreasonable hours. People will stay late during crunch time, or when they're on a roll. But there is no expectation that you will work yourself into the ground. There's an expectation of high productivity within a 40 hour work week, plus or minus. There's expectations that people will react to emergencies and deal with them whenever they occur. But there's also an expectation that this will be rare.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#77

Post by trapped123 »

I really hate these types of employees. First of all they raise employer's expectations that all the other workers will be willing to put in free hours for them. Second by working for 130 hours they are basically taking away jobs from 2 other people who could be gainfully employed if these types of employees worked a normal schedule. Obviously the counterpoint is that these guys really loved their work so much that they didn't really mind. But in that case isn't it better that they do some charity work, help more needy people rather than helping fill the coffers of mega corporations.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#78

Post by crusso »

lfborjas wrote: post #36

Articles like this remind me of Bertrand Russell's [In praise of idleness]( http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html ): "I want to say, in all seriousness, that a great deal of harm is being done in the modern world by belief in the virtuousness of work, and that the road to happiness and prosperity lies in an organized diminution of work."

I love Bertrand Russell. Such brilliant quotes. I especially love his thoughts on religion.

Unfortunately, he was no futurist. His view of the manual laborer doing all the work vs the bosses telling the worker what to do was hopelessly mired in the past and plagued with his thinking that the industrial revolution's growing pains were permanent or even worsening.

Given that Peter Drucker was around and writing at the same time, it's not like the idea that we were heading somewhere better as a society was unknowable.

This passage in the link you provided stood out to me:

  The small surplus above bare necessaries was not left to those who produced it, 
  but was appropriated by warriors and priests. In times of famine there was no 
  surplus; the warriors and priests, however, still secured as much as at other 
  times, with the result that many of the workers died of hunger.
These days, our warrior/priest caste is actually the government and the elite corporatists that collude with it. Economy goes up, government spending goes up. Economy goes down, government spending goes up... strange that.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#79

Post by crusso »

ori_b wrote: post #76
crusso wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people at Google have and are continuing to attempt significant "outlier" levels of financial and software technological success. Should they expect to work a 9-5 schedule? If achieving success at a level that might require that you to sacrifice a bunch of your family life is your thing, then I guess that Google might be a place for you. If it isn't, then you don't really have to work there. So much vitriol in th…

As someone who works at Google, I can say that (at least within my team) people do not tend to work unreasonable hours. People will stay late during crunch time, or when they're on a roll. But there is no expectation that you will work yourself into the ground. There's an expectation of high productivity within a 40 hour work week, plus or minus. There's expectations that people will react to emergencies and deal wit…

That's why I was careful to say that Google expects people to "produce", not work ridiculous hours.

Plus, I have no idea what Google is expecting its works to do these days. You say one thing, employee #20 makes it sound like a meal with the family on Tuesday night is the exception, not the rule.

I will say that if Google doesn't keep a strong work ethic, it will go the way of Apple in the late 80's and early 90's. I was at Apple when the "work hard, play hard" ethic somehow shifted to just "play hard". Apple was on the verge of going out of business for a decade or so because of that lack of drive.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#80

Post by heretohelp »

"Grant your employees one must-have freedom"

I'm the CTO at a startup and I have employees that are my responsibility. The mere idea that it's appropriate for me to grant one of my people a personal freedom that was theirs to begin with is offensive.

A company that requires overwork from its people, especially salaried people, in order to sustain itself doesn't deserve to exist. Paid overtime is another story and is a common aspect of the how the manufacturing sector works.

I'm sure Mayer is a good manager, people have attested to as much in this thread. The article appears to be designed to hack together a particular attitude towards work/overwork piecemeal from an interview with Mayer that I don't think she adheres to.

This article makes me want to defenestrate myself and join the Socialist Party.

I'll be avoiding entrepreneur.com in future.

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