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Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

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Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#71

Post by parshua »

Epskampie wrote: post #63
parshua wrote: post #58

[flagged]

Do you think that Iran would do any better given the opportunity? The very fact that you where able to freely learn of these attrocities commited committed by your own leaders, is only due to you living in a democratic country. Where you to live in Iran, or China, Russia or any other dictatorship for that matter, the situation would be very different. No one should deny that that is plenty wrong with the western worl…

"Given"? Who do you think took the opportunity from the Iranian people in 1953? You have a very distorted idea of how it is to live in what you consider dictatorships. In fact, in most of those countries, people have a better idea of what's going on both in their own countries and in the world. They have access to two opposing points of view, unlike most people living in the west.

Nobody claimed Iran, Iranians or whatever they are doing is superior. I'm just sick and tired of the righteousness expressed in this forum. No matter how backwards is Iran and its government and atrocities committed by them against their own people, it pales in comparison to what the west has done just in the past two decades. They keep their shit to themselves so to speak. The Americans in this forum would do well to follow suit.

It is worth mentioning that those same backwards people are also one of the top producers of knowledge not just in the middle east[1], but the world[2], in many fields outproducing most middle tier European countries. Your idea of the world is comical, as such you do not understand it as it is.

The above are coming from a liberal Iranian who lives in the west, so take it for what you would.

[1]https://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php [2]https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20214/publication-output-by-co...

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#72

Post by Mehcure »

wiseowise wrote: post #66
Almondsetat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. Nations we don't like should stay in the stone age, especially the people.

> Nations we don't like Autocratic hellhole that oppresses its people, sponsors terrorist groups and supports kleptocracy that destroys Ukraine right now. You’re phrasing “don’t like” like we’re talking about food preferences or color of clothes.

[flagged]

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#73

Post by wiseowise »

aniviacat wrote: post #60
noduerme wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several flaws in your reasoning. Firstly, you conflate your personal feelings with the rule of law. You may personally agree or disagree with preventing people from committing suicide, or violating religious norms, but that should be completely separate from whether you think the government should enforce your personal belief on people who believe otherwise. In a democracy, the government is not there to en…

> In a democracy, the government is not there to enforce your beliefs, it is there to prevent other people's beliefs from overriding your right to have your own. That's why I gave the example of forceful suicide prevention. That is the law in my democratic, non-theocratic country. Tell me how forcing someone not to commit suicide differs from forcing someone not to sin. In my view it's the same: You are limiting some…

> Tell me how forcing someone not to commit suicide differs from forcing someone not to sin.

Define sin first. Killing yourself results in death. Religious fanatics stretch definition of sin to whatever they don’t like.

Gays? Sin? Woman without hijab? Sin. Abortion? Sin.

> In my view it's the same: You are limiting someone else's liberty; forcing them not to do something you consider a grave mistake.

No, it’s totally not the same. And it’s not necessarily about mistake. Allowing people to commit unrestricted suicide would set a dangerous precedent. And on top of that a lot of inconvenience for people around.

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#74

Post by yawboakye »

wiseowise wrote: post #73
aniviacat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a democracy, the government is not there to enforce your beliefs, it is there to prevent other people's beliefs from overriding your right to have your own. That's why I gave the example of forceful suicide prevention. That is the law in my democratic, non-theocratic country. Tell me how forcing someone not to commit suicide differs from forcing someone not to sin. In my view it's the same: You are limiting some…

> Tell me how forcing someone not to commit suicide differs from forcing someone not to sin. Define sin first. Killing yourself results in death. Religious fanatics stretch definition of sin to whatever they don’t like. Gays? Sin? Woman without hijab? Sin. Abortion? Sin. > In my view it's the same: You are limiting someone else's liberty; forcing them not to do something you consider a grave mistake. No, it’s totally…

your last statement isn't grounded in reality. suicide is available to any determined person, and there are loads of them per year. what do you mean by unrestricted suicide? what's restricted suicide? people who want to commit suicide will, irrespective of what the law says. i'm yet to meet a suicide prevention program that refers to the strength of the law or the terror of the punishment.

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#75

Post by lm28469 »

InDubioProRubio wrote: post #6
liamwire wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s awesome to see totalitarian theocracies make advances in technologies that have parallel military uses?

The totalitarian Theocracy is 40 years old- one generation. Before that it was and always has been the Persians. Intellectual powerhouse of the middle east. Cairo-Bhagdad-Teheran - that was were its at, before they ran into the regions resource limit and adapted a religion that is great at eternal, zero-sum wars and paranoid delusions about external influence and bad at everything else.

> The totalitarian Theocracy is 40 years old- one generation.

~70% of the current population was born under it, it's all it takes to completely destroy a nation

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#76

Post by yawboakye »

The_Colonel wrote: post #69
yawboakye wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don’t get me wrong, i strongly believe that when a people are fit for it, democracy is the best political organization. but they have to be fit for it. the west transitioned into democracy when they were fit for it but are gradually transitioning out and hiding real political power behind government agencies that are unaffected by the whims and caprices of the crowd (aka electorates). miniature monarchies/tyrannies/e…

Well, I get that democracy does not automatically mean rainbows and unicorns and can get dysfunctional. My question is - what's the alternative which would work better for your country? Looking at your profile, you're from Africa, where the typical alternative is either a military junta or a theocracy. Why do you think that those would lead to better outcomes in your country?

monarchy. we have a lot more history with this organization. there still exists a strong allegiance to the tribe (original nation) over the independent, makeshift nation (ie contiguous pieces of land formerly ruled by a colonial master).

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#77

Post by AnimalMuppet »

aniviacat wrote: post #32
liamwire wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a lot of words to argue agent the right for humans to self-determine their own governance and fate. Sincerely, I see no compelling argument that can be made in support of the restrictions Iran places upon its citizens. Please make one, with specifics, if you’re interested in discussing it.

If you truly believe that people who do not follow the laws of your religion will go to eternal hell, it does make a lot of sense, and really is completely morally sound, to push others into following the laws using any means necessary. I'm not religious myself. But in my country, if someone is actively suicidal (say they are standing on top of a building, planning to jump) they are (forcefully) stopped. I think that…

But see, Jesus taught that sin isn't just what we do. It starts in our hearts, and then what's inside spills out.

Even if you're the government, you can't write a law or enforce a law against, say, adultery. You can stop - or at least reduce - the external behavior. But you can't change hearts by an external law. You just create people who are different on the outside than they are on the inside. "Hypocrites" is a term for that, which comes from the Greek word for "actors" - people who pretend to be something they're not.

That's not going to keep them from hell. It might keep them from jail, but that's not the same thing.

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#78

Post by The_Colonel »

yawboakye wrote: post #76
The_Colonel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I get that democracy does not automatically mean rainbows and unicorns and can get dysfunctional. My question is - what's the alternative which would work better for your country? Looking at your profile, you're from Africa, where the typical alternative is either a military junta or a theocracy. Why do you think that those would lead to better outcomes in your country?

monarchy. we have a lot more history with this organization. there still exists a strong allegiance to the tribe (original nation) over the independent, makeshift nation (ie contiguous pieces of land formerly ruled by a colonial master).

Would such a monarchy remain stable enough to survive? In the whole of Africa, there's only one absolute monarchy (Swaziland).

> there still exists a strong allegiance to the tribe (original nation) over the independent, makeshift nation

Perhaps too strong allegiance? In places where the centralized state becomes weak / collapses, clan violence tends to intensify (Somalia, South Sudan). These larger "makeshift" nations seem to have a somewhat calming effect on the ethnic conflicts.

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#79

Post by [deleted] »

aniviacat wrote: post #23
yawboakye wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem not to like how iran is setup, which makes it absolutely necessary that they’re able to put up a resistance should people who think like you attack them. as far as the universe goes, many beliefs about ways of human society organization exist. democracy works for one, not for the other. in fact, democracy has been the undoing of my home country. but it has made us subservient to the west, so naturally the we…

> [democracy] has made us subservient to the west Since you live in a democratic county, the solution to this is very simple: Vote for someone who doesn't serve the west.

[deleted]

Re: Iran successfully launches indigenous Chamran 1 satellite into space

#80

Post by niemandhier »

aerodog wrote: post #13
niemandhier wrote: post #3

I wish Iran and Israel could just resolve their issues by competing who reaches the moon first or who can dig the deepest hole.

Israel has won the hole competition

Is there any particular hole? As an oil nation, Iran is pretty good at drilling deep.
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