71–79 of 79 posts
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InteliJ does when you get Ultimate. Swing is the box, what is the Microsoft in the box solution? MAUI still doesn't do Linux, and is focused on C#. 3rd party stepping in for Microsoft doesn't count in this discussion. What matters is public perception, and people applying for jobs. By now I don't expect another fate, other than joining VB and C++/CLI teams, in bug fixing, minor interop improvements to keep up with C#…
> 3rd party stepping in for Microsoft doesn't count in this discussion. This completely misses the point of having rich ecosystem nor has any relevance whatsoever from practical standpoint for organizations that have competent leadership. For all intents and purposes, this would completely disqualify Clojure and Scala themselves since they don’t come from Oracle, and Kotlin if Google/JetBrains don’t count either. You…
Just like Common Language Runtime was announced in 2001, where all Microsoft languages used to be on equal tooling level. Unfortunately to those languages, CLR now means C# Language Runtime.
Microsoft isn't a poor startup trying to make it over the next month, as shown not only by ABK, their whole profit and market valuation.
By the way, C++/CLI was recently updated to C++20, as of last year, and is a critical component of WPF, remade official GUI framework at BUILD 2024.
No use to keep discussing this, lets see how much F# is there in .NET 9 and VS 2024 update when November comes.
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I think C# is a perfectly fine language, but as you say it's not really groundbreaking or unique. It's probably not even my top-five choice for general purpose language in 2024 but it's obviously gotten (is still getting) "the job done". If we're to praise Anders Hejlsberg's work I would personally pick Typescript above C#. Just look at how influential Typescript has been for global development in the previous decade…
What is your top 5?
If you had asked me a decade ago I would've said C# in place of the JVM, C/C++ in place of Rust and Python in place of Go. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to put C#, Python or even PHP on your top 5. I don't because I think they've been "outpaced" in usefulness by the JVM and Go. I know Go is a controversial opinion as Go is in many ways inferior to both C# and Python. The reason I place it higher is because I really dig some of the philosophies it comes with. I much prefer to work on code with explicit error handling and no cyclical package imports. This along with the focus on simplicity and how much you can do with just the standard library makes it very easy to write understandable (no magic) and maintainable code. It's one of the few languages where I can open a code file and immediately know what's going on almost regardless of who wrote it.
With that said, Clojure is my personal top language and I really hope I'll get time to pick up the "JavaScript" side of it so I can do all my Typescript work within Clojure. Haskell is too rigid for me and both it and Common Lisp doesn't come with the ability to tap into the JVM (which can be both a blessing and a curse). To be fair Lisp has Clasp which is much more powerful for some uses. I don't think you can ever really avoid C/C++ (Rust for safety) or Erlang in certain parts of our industry and I'm not sure they'll get real competition. Maybe if Zig manages to pick up a cult following like Rust has? The reason the JVM and it's languages rank so highly for me is in part because of its popularity. This may not be a good metric but I personally think real world application is a key factor for general purpose languages. Coupled with it's massive leap forward with it's recent updates it is simply a great platform in 2024.
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What is your top 5?
General purpose languages in 2024? Something on the JVM (I prefer Clojure), Rust, JavaScript (typically through Typescript), Erlang and Go. If you had asked me a decade ago I would've said C# in place of the JVM, C/C++ in place of Rust and Python in place of Go. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to put C#, Python or even PHP on your top 5. I don't because I think they've been "outpaced" in usefulness by the JV…
Go aside, it's as if everyone hates getting things done in a delightful way, which is why I find this top 5 leaning a bit too much towards the quadrant of PL elitism and historical status quo adherence at the same time. Not to mention the drawbacks of JVM, which is by all means a stagnating ecosystem, despite the work to catch up with the rest, it might be a little too late.
It may be a bit shallow, but as a Dane, I take some pride in the number of languages created by my countrymen, considering our modest population. *Many have migrated to the US on their way, but still…
I'm working on a toy language (in the US), and I'm 1/8th Danish.
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What is your top 5?
General purpose languages in 2024? Something on the JVM (I prefer Clojure), Rust, JavaScript (typically through Typescript), Erlang and Go. If you had asked me a decade ago I would've said C# in place of the JVM, C/C++ in place of Rust and Python in place of Go. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to put C#, Python or even PHP on your top 5. I don't because I think they've been "outpaced" in usefulness by the JV…
ABCL -> https://abcl.org
The Java interface for LispWorks : https://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw80/lw/lw-java-ug.h...
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Scala, Clojure, and Kotlin are much more taken care of than F# will ever be. In tooling, books, conferences, critical applications used in large scale across the industry. Meanwhile Microsoft keeps behaving as if it was a management mistake to have added it to VS 2010.
Kotlin? For sure, it's the Android language after all, so it is looked after , sure. Does it integrate better? That's up to debate. For example, F# 9 integrates C# NRTs in the form of T | null unions, which is elegant and idiomatic approach that brings together nullness knowledge between the two. For now, this is not the case with Kotlin. I encourage you to look at the state of Clojure and its usability within larger…
For what it's worth, I have been a newcomer to both languages the past few years. Clojure has been way more usable than F# and it's not even close.
Clojure is firmly in the quality not quantity category. Good books, novel libraries, a very active slack. Things usually "just work."
F#? Broken type providers, scaffolding that doesn't work past .NET 6.0, a genuine lack of books. Sometimes things work great, they often don't, and the typed nature makes a lot of these things hurt more.
Seems weird to attribute Haskell to Microsoft. Simon Peyton Jones joined MSR Cambridge in '98 (about a decade after the name "Haskell" was chosen), Erik Meijer joined Microsoft in 2000, and nobody else linked from the Wikipedia page for Haskell has obvious affiliations with Microsoft. As far as I can tell, Haskell was an academic collaboration mostly between Jones (UCL briefly, mostly University of Glasgow), Wadler (…
Elixir is probably the most prominent language that originated in Brazil (at Plataformatec in São Paulo) but the data CSV lists an address in Texas.