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My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

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Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#71

Post by dredmorbius »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #59
santoshalper wrote: post #13

I have spent about 20 years in the mortgage and housing industry, a decent amount of that in servicing and default. I have seen some shady shit including borrowers who committed mortgage fraud and lenders who made loans they knew would ultimately blow up in someone's face (not theirs!). That said, 99% of defaults are very simple: At the time of the loan, the borrower could afford to make the mortgage payment. Later d…

Maybe you have some insight over something that's always confused me. During the 2008 crash, I heard of a lot of people seeing their home value plummet, end up underwater on their mortgage, and decide to just abandon it. I've never understood why someone would do that, rather than ride it out and keep paying while the value recovers? I could MAYBE understand going "Nope, I'm out" if you had an adjustable-rate mortgag…

Balloon mortgages and an inability to refinance on attractive terms.

It wasn't a matter of holding the property. Most simply couldn't make payments.

Walkaways worked because real estate debt (in most of the US) is non-recourse debt. You leave the mortgage, the bank (or present mortgage holder) gets the property. Debt is settled.

(Lender in this case, or the present mortage holder, itself a rather complex question given mortgage-backed securities and fast-and-loose assignments of title, gets stuck holding the bag. Eventually values climbed again, at least outside economically-blighted zones.)

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#72

Post by dredmorbius »

coolspot wrote: post #37
coding123 wrote: post #9

There needs to be some standard addendum attached to homes as an option that anyone selling a home can attach to the sale. Something like: This house cannot be used as an investment vehicle. It cannot be sold by a real-estate agent with a contract of more than 1%. It cannot be used as a rental. It cannot be sold for more than inflation would allow. Anyone found violating this addendum may be sued. All proceeds from t…

Homelessness is mostly caused by drugs and/or psychiatric illness.

Expensive and/or insufficient housing doesn't help.

Rich drug addicts tend to remain housed, at least to a greater extent than the poor.

Getting forced onto the streets tends to compound any preexisting tendencies to poor mental health and/or addictive tendencies.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#73

Post by specialist »

coolspot wrote: post #37
coding123 wrote: post #9

There needs to be some standard addendum attached to homes as an option that anyone selling a home can attach to the sale. Something like: This house cannot be used as an investment vehicle. It cannot be sold by a real-estate agent with a contract of more than 1%. It cannot be used as a rental. It cannot be sold for more than inflation would allow. Anyone found violating this addendum may be sued. All proceeds from t…

Homelessness is mostly caused by drugs and/or psychiatric illness.

If one first excludes PTSD, domestic violence, health issues, loss of job, and being a homosexual (youth), then -- yes -- the top two causes are in fact the two television tropes which most confirm one's priors.

Well spotted.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#74

Post by _DeadFred_ »

BobbyTables2 wrote: post #8
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you probably would have had to completely ignore probably a dozen of these documents for at least 6 months, not paying your mortgage all along. Fun-fact: thems the benefits of being a mortgage holder. If you're a tenant that's renting, you get no such legal protections - let alone discretion from whichever faceless entity actually owns the property: where I am in King County WA, I think, at most you can get 30 days…

Indeed. When I lived in an apparent, got a very angry knock at the door. Before I even got up, manager already was unlocking the door without asking, with a formal eviction notice in hand. Every month I faithfully put my rent check in an envelope, deposited the slot at the office. That month they accidentally threw away the check after opening the envelope. They really didn’t believe I had paid, despite being a good…

I think this is part of the reason people don't want to live in big city condo buildings with co-ops or communal fees/maintenance. Even if you own your place you don't really own it and these other entity that care nothing about, your bill situation, etc you can impact your housing situation.

If I have a place in the burbs I only have to worry about the soulless local government.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#75

Post by Aeolun »

jopsen wrote: post #44
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some landlords have a HUGE superiority complex which makes them look down upon or even despise their tenants for no reason at all.

Logically thinking: if you are a landlord, most of your interactions with tenants aren't with easy tenants who pay on time and don't make unreasonable demands. A stupid landlord might not realize that easy tenants are worth gathering.

Yeah, I’m more inclined to think they hear ‘I paid my bill!’ from every single person that’ll then stop paying going forward.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#76

Post by jarsin »

sandspar wrote: post #19

I've seen a few sides of money. Raised upper class, lost it all and became underclass, then made it back. I'm always amazed at how limited rich people's worldview is. The average software developer, coastal liberal etc. They've never felt terror, the visceral feeling of being terrified. They've never been predated upon. They've never been used and discarded. The underclass lives with this stuff every day, 24/7, and r…

There's a reason the second or third generation rich kids tend to lose it all.

They're soft.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#77

Post by fragmede »

crooked-v wrote: post #10
coding123 wrote: post #9

There needs to be some standard addendum attached to homes as an option that anyone selling a home can attach to the sale. Something like: This house cannot be used as an investment vehicle. It cannot be sold by a real-estate agent with a contract of more than 1%. It cannot be used as a rental. It cannot be sold for more than inflation would allow. Anyone found violating this addendum may be sued. All proceeds from t…

Or, you know, just actually build enough houses for people to live in. I feel like that would be a better start than suing people into bankruptcy because they made 5% off a house sale instead of of 4.5%. Houses are only an attractive investment vehicle in the first place because there is a massive shortage of housing.

Which, like, subsidies for building housing is the way out.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#78

Post by rufus_foreman »

hunter-gatherer wrote: post #33

I've had a handful of lemons thrown at me during my life. One of the most impactful ones as far as I can tell is that through a weird chain of coincidences I ended up first in line to purchase a foreclosed home. From what I understood, the couple was going through a nasty divorce and couldn't agree on who would get the house and ultimately didn't pay anything for a while, so I picked it up for 80k, which back then wa…

>> Having been able to pay off my house has had the most tremendous postive impact on my mental health I think

Agree on that. I own my house with no mortgage since before the pandemic and it doesn't make much financial sense to pass up a 3% mortgage but it makes mental health sense.

Yes, I owe property taxes. Yes, the city could raise them. If I completely stopped paying them today, it would take them a decade to kick me out. It's nice from a mental health perspective to have a 10 year runway to plan your next move.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#79

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #71
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you have some insight over something that's always confused me. During the 2008 crash, I heard of a lot of people seeing their home value plummet, end up underwater on their mortgage, and decide to just abandon it. I've never understood why someone would do that, rather than ride it out and keep paying while the value recovers? I could MAYBE understand going "Nope, I'm out" if you had an adjustable-rate mortgag…

Balloon mortgages and an inability to refinance on attractive terms. It wasn't a matter of holding the property. Most simply couldn't make payments. Walkaways worked because real estate debt (in most of the US) is non-recourse debt. You leave the mortgage, the bank (or present mortgage holder) gets the property. Debt is settled. (Lender in this case, or the present mortage holder, itself a rather complex question giv…

> Balloon mortgages

I remember seeing those. As far as I was concerned, I thought they were an absolute scam and I can't believe anybody chose one.

> It wasn't a matter of holding the property. Most simply couldn't make payments.

I know that was the case for most people, but I certainly heard about people that still could, but chose not to, simply because they were underwater. I was trying to understand those people.

> Walkaways worked because real estate debt (in most of the US) is non-recourse debt. You leave the mortgage, the bank (or present mortgage holder) gets the property. Debt is settled.

Wait, really?

This is actually news to me. I had assumed that you would still owe the bank the difference between the remaining balance and the value of the home. ie, if you bought the house for $500K, made payments for a few years, then walked away when the house dropped to $400K value, but you still owed $450K, then if the bank foreclosed, you'd still owe $50K to the bank.

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