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Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

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Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#71

Post by hcfman »

djhn wrote: post #63
hcfman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands created an intelligence agency called the RIEC deliberately without a human representative so the whole organisation cannot be taken to court. And this organisation actively works against the rights of its citizens with impunity. The attorney general himself even said that their prosecutors can lie in court without being prosecuted for perjury. It’s a joke that this country pretends to be upset with c…

Could you point towards any sources on this? A few google searches turn up nothing and.

Sorry, here's an English version of that link below:

https://hydracontrolfreak.com/socialhistory/socialhistory.ht...

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#72

Post by amy-petrik-214 »

piva00 wrote: post #65
brainwad wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you run a company in a foreign country, then the laws of that country apply of course. Why should it be different just because they have scraped internet data containing images of Euroepeans? If that's legal in the home country of the business (as it would in, say, America) then its none of the EU's business. Imagine the reverse, if China was fining European companies for not censoring CCP-offensive terms on the i…

> If that's legal in the home country of the business (as it would in, say, America) then its none of the EU's business. The data pertain to EU's citizens, that is covered under the GDPR, if your business deal with private data from EU's citizens you are under the GDPR even if you don't operate in the EU (such as the case of Clearview). Of course, without an office/representation in the EU it's impossible for the EU…

I think there is merit to both side of the argument here.

On the one hand, yes, each nation can stick to their lane. Who is to say their rules and culture and regulations are "correct". Undefined. That another nation may well believe themselves to be the correct one. Under that principle it's wrong to go nosing about other nations. The example of CCCChinaCCCP's arm reaching out censorship wise was made here.

On the flipside, the defending of one's nation's citizens against foreign obnoxiousness is well reasonable. For example, if USA did a better job defending against scammers from India, I think we'd all be happier for it. Now, is India right/correct in believing spam calling is a god given human right to be embedded into their own bill of rights? I don't know, but what I do know is US citizens would be happier if US defended there interests here, as the EU is doing for his citizens.

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#73

Post by amy-petrik-214 »

rsynnott wrote: post #33
fsndz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even without tech, justice system is already ruining people's lives unjustly. so maybe we have to discuss failure rate, processes in place to correctly use the tech, instead of just saying it has to be bad ? the question is will the tech help ruin more people lives that was already the case or not or improve the odds in some cases even

> even without tech, justice system is already ruining people's lives unjustly Sure, but as with a lot of this stuff, this allows that to be done _at scale_. "[bad thing] happens anyway" isn't a great argument against "we should ban this thing where [bad thing] is likely to happen at massive frequency".

>> even without tech, justice system is already ruining people's lives unjustly

>Sure, but as with a lot of this stuff, this allows that to be done _at scale_.

EXACTLY. The US wastes over 8 billion dollars a year inefficiently ruining peoples' lives and burning tax dollars. With the advent of facial recognition AI software, we can ruin lives 90% more efficiently at three times the scale!

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#74

Post by hcfman »

djhn wrote: post #63
hcfman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands created an intelligence agency called the RIEC deliberately without a human representative so the whole organisation cannot be taken to court. And this organisation actively works against the rights of its citizens with impunity. The attorney general himself even said that their prosecutors can lie in court without being prosecuted for perjury. It’s a joke that this country pretends to be upset with c…

Could you point towards any sources on this? A few google searches turn up nothing and.

Almost 30 years ago the Netherlands were caught with their pants down actively participating in criminal activity. The scandal was called "The IRT affaire". At that time the IRT teams were more directly involved with criminal activity as I understand it.

After the big deal that that caused, it looks like they restructured to do the same sort of things but do it all through proxies instead. Plausible deniability. Avoidance of accountability. I expect I'm describing all intelligence agencies here with this, but this was a case of the justice department morphing into an intelligence agency driven thing. So no longer representing justice (or democracy) anymore.

In 2006, the mayor in our council signed the integrated approach to tackeling weed plantages agreement (Convenant, geintegreerde aanpak hennepplantage". The integrated part refers to the proxies (Their partners, like the council) through which they do everything. From that time he was obstructing all attempts from me not to be a victim of harrassment, theft, attacks etc.

Apparently, they are given orders, not explanations, to do things. Plausible deniability. Not very plausible but they would claim the deniability part.

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#75

Post by hcfman »

sensanaty wrote: post #57
briandw wrote: post #12

If having a facial recognition system of your citizens is immoral, then maybe the Netherlands government shouldn't have one either? Are the facial recognition systems of the Netherlands auditable? How can anyone be certain that they aren't being abused and used for political persecution?

I trust the Dutch government infinitely more than any US corporate entity.

This is giving a misleading impression. I can see why you are saying it, however it's giving an impression that the Netherlands has high integrity. Read my comments above.

The word infinite here is probably a little out of place. But it's a statement of your feelings so it can well be an accurate reflection of them.

Re: Clearview AI faces $45.6M fine in the Netherlands for 'illegal database of faces

#76

Post by hcfman »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #13
dmitrygr wrote: post #8

I rarely root for EU’s heavy handed approach to tech regulation. But in this case, I am willing to pick up Pom-poms and cheer for them as loud as I am capable of “Go eu go. Bankrupt those bastards and jail them all. Go eu go. Give it to them hard”

In what cases do you not like the EU’s approach? By and large, some good moves happening there. The only negative that really jumps out to me are cookie consent banners, but those are more malicious compliance than the fault of the EU.

Yeah the perception of the EU approach is not bad. Reality… not so much.
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