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Elasticsearch is open source, again

elastic.co

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Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#71

Post by js4ever »

lolinder wrote: post #63
everfrustrated wrote: post #16

Too late, the community all moved over to OpenSearch. I'll never forgive Elastic for locking basic security features behind their paid licence. Over the years probably millions of people had their data compromised due to that (due to people inadvertently leaving instances on the public internet - having auth enabled by default would have helped a lot)

What is "the community" here? Every metric I'm able to find (commit frequency, gh stars, gh stars gained since the launch of opensearch, stack overflow tags, google search result counts...) suggests that OpenSearch didn't really take much of Elastic's mind share in the end. Each metric I've looked at shows OpenSearch at somewhere between 20%-50% of Elastic's numbers, which isn't nothing but is a far cry from "the com…

Last time I deployed elastic was years ago. In the meantime I deployed hundreds of opensearch instead for customers.

Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#72

Post by vineyardmike »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #32
vineyardmike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I sell my Toyota car on the side of the road I can call it a Toyota. If I sell you ElasticSearch(tm) Service which is the actual ES code base, what’s the infringement?

> If I sell you ElasticSearch(tm) Service which is the actual ES code base, what’s the infringement? A reasonable consumer or customer might be confused into thinking a service named ElasticSearch(tm) Service is being provided by the company behind ElasticSearch. This confusion is exactly what trademarks rather than copyrights are meant to prevent. The trademark law doctrine of nominative fair use allows you to descr…

> A reasonable consumer or customer might be confused into thinking a service named ElasticSearch(tm) Service is being provided by the company behind ElasticSearch. This confusion is exactly what trademarks rather than copyrights are meant to prevent.

> you're not reselling the same service as Elastic does; you're offering your own independent version of the service, backed by their technology. To prevent unwarranted damage to Elastic's reputation from any weaknesses in your service's reliability, customer support, or other factors, trademark law doesn't let you call your service ElasticSearch Service without their permission.

I don’t know. The orginal AWS-hosted Elastic Search product was the elastic search code, hosted by AWS. That’s fundamentally the same thing. Maybe the exact wording matters and the service name was “AWS managed elastic search” or whatever. I’m sure the Amazon lawyers knew how to name it.

This feels analogous to “Amazon Linux” where it’s clearly Amazon’s version of Linux (which is also a trademark). Or “hosted postgres” or “Postgres compatible RDS” or any number of other services based on OSS.

Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#73

Post by flockonus »

foxyv wrote: post #60
anticorporate wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could be learned from this example that might enable companies in the future to leverage trademark instead of a license change to accomplish the same thing? So much damage could have been avoided if this had been resolved differently to begin with.

Change your name, not your license.

I think they are saying: trademark your product name (open source in this case), make sure it's used only as approved.

Altho i believe it does go back to the license attached to the product.

Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#75

Post by lolinder »

js4ever wrote: post #71
lolinder wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "the community" here? Every metric I'm able to find (commit frequency, gh stars, gh stars gained since the launch of opensearch, stack overflow tags, google search result counts...) suggests that OpenSearch didn't really take much of Elastic's mind share in the end. Each metric I've looked at shows OpenSearch at somewhere between 20%-50% of Elastic's numbers, which isn't nothing but is a far cry from "the com…

Last time I deployed elastic was years ago. In the meantime I deployed hundreds of opensearch instead for customers.

Are you the one who makes the call, or are you getting hundreds of customers requesting OpenSearch over Elastic?

If you're making the call then that's really one anecdote, not hundreds.

Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#76

Post by mrcwinn »

candiddevmike wrote: post #35

Stock is down almost 25% afterhours (not sure if due to this or their earnings call)

"'We had a slower start to the year with the volume of customer commitments impacted by segmentation changes that we made at the beginning of the year, which are taking longer than expected to settle. We have been taking steps to address this, but it will impact our revenue this year,' said Ash Kulkarni, Chief Executive Officer, Elastic."

So, whatever that means, is the answer to your question.

Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#78

Post by vineyardmike »

zem wrote: post #64
vineyardmike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I sell my Toyota car on the side of the road I can call it a Toyota. If I sell you ElasticSearch(tm) Service which is the actual ES code base, what’s the infringement?

but if you set up a showroom that only sells toyota cars, i'm fairly sure you can't call it a toyota dealership

I don’t know if that’s true. I see tons of car repair services advertising “we repair $BRAND with original parts” and they’re definitely not owned by $BRAND.

Clearly not confused with the original brand, but also advertising a service built off that brand.

Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#79

Post by wmf »

Raed667 wrote: post #5
foxyv wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so that AWS would create their own name for their fork: > we changed the license, knowing it would result in a fork of Elasticsearch with a different name and a different trajectory. It’s a long story. I think the name of the fork is now OpenSearch.

what is preventing AWS from dropping OpenSearch and going back to just selling Elastic ?

If you try to sell AGPL software the owner will probably shake you down.

Re: Elasticsearch is open source, again

#80

Post by lolinder »

foxyv wrote: post #13
Raed667 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is preventing AWS from dropping OpenSearch and going back to just selling Elastic ?

To be honest, the OpenSearch brand has more value now than Elastic.

I see a couple people on here claiming this, but no data to back it up. Elastic beats out OpenSearch by a wide margin on every metric I've thought to check (gh stars, gh stars rate of increase, number of commits, number of pull requests opened, number of pull requests merged, number of issues, stack overflow questions...). Not a single one shows OpenSearch ahead.

What metric are you using to come to the conclusion that OpenSearch is the more valuable brand?

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