Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#71

Post by tptacek » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:14 PM UTC

hack_edu wrote: post #11

pvnick wrote: post #5

How dire is Assange's situation? Is it really possible that the US will try to imprison or even execute him? Edit: I know were not talking directly about the US here, but the reason I made the jump is that I see Sweden as a lot more likely to allow the US to bully it into giving up Assange

US imprisonment has very little to do with this. The man faces rape and sexual assault charges, one of the most serious offenses a person can commit. Though I back his politics 100% and consider him a hero to be remembered, he has every responsibility to face his accusers in a fair trial. Shame on Sweden if they hand him over to the Americans after his trial has concluded.

Really? You back his politics one hundred percent?

"Julian was very reluctant to delete those names, to redact them." David Leigh of the Guardian newspaper tells FRONTLINE of meetings he attended with Assange in the run-up to publication of the war logs. "And we said: 'Julian, we've got to do something about these redactions. We really have got to.' And he said: 'These people were collaborators, informants. They deserve to die.' And a silence fell around the table."

This is David Leigh, an fairly reputable guy who runs investigative reporting for _The Guardian_, not exactly an institution known for cowtowing to the military industrial complex of the US. Do you think he made this up? I don't.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#72

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:23 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #54

objclxt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now they would like him back to ask some more questions. Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).

If the prosecution is politically motivated then seeking asylum is appropriate. How do we resolve this question? There are some circumstantial reasons to believe that it is politically motivated. However, we just don't know.

>"We just don't know"

And when faced with insufficient evidence of extraordinary affairs we resort to the status quo: due process in light of a sexual assault charge. The conspiracy theory being invoked is an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence that has yet to be forthcoming.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#73

Post by roguecoder » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:26 PM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #5

How dire is Assange's situation? Is it really possible that the US will try to imprison or even execute him? Edit: I know were not talking directly about the US here, but the reason I made the jump is that I see Sweden as a lot more likely to allow the US to bully it into giving up Assange

He is accused of sexual misconduct, some of which does carry possible jail times similar to, say, shoplifting. His continued refusal to stand trial is unlikely to play well to the court, but had he simply faced trial he would probably be out already even if he had been convicted.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#74

Post by planetguy » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:27 PM UTC

xefer wrote: post #7

sp332 wrote: post #3

Why Ecuador, in particular? I just learned that they've adopted the US dollar as their currency, following devaluation of their old currency in 1999. Edit: I checked, and Ecuador does have extradition treaties with both the UK and the US. I don't know about Sweden though. Edit2: according to http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/06/19/assange_seeks... Ecuador has a treaty with the EU as well. But moving to Ecuador…

I have a feeling he'll be "couch surfing" from embassy to embassy to delay the extradition as long as possible.

I'm confused by the embassy's statement.

Is an embassy really obliged to shelter any foreign national who might show up on the run from the law for a fairly prosaic [ahem alleged] crime? If I knock over a gas station can I show up at the Tanzanian embassy, say "Hi, I'm a political refugee" and hang around for long enough for them to process this claim?

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#75

Post by genwin » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:28 PM UTC

objclxt wrote: post #57

rickmb wrote: post #47

Seems to me Assange isn't so much afraid of being extradited to US (there is a truckload of ways to fight that if it ever comes to that) but of actually being convicted in Sweden. The Piratebay trials have shown how corrupted the Swedish justice system can be, with both police, prosecution and judges having proven private connections with the copyright industry (which in itself is not only organized and financed by t…

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…

If I had to fight an accusation of a rape I didn't commit, even if I was vindicated I'd end up destitute and homeless. Any reasonable person would evade these women's due process if they were in Assange's shoes, especially the innocent.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#76

Post by iand » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:29 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #22

iand wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's wanted in Sweden. Is there an extradition treaty between Ecuador and Sweden?

Sweden is part of the EU, so yes.

ah, didn't see that edit

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#77

Post by luriel » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:30 PM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #23

wilfra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has nothing to do with this. Sweden is trying to have him extradited from the UK for a sexual assault charge.

He's not even charged in Sweden. It's fairly obvious the Swedish angle is being used to get him in a country from which he can be extradicted to the US.

Every time I hear this argument I don't know if to laugh or to cry.

Assange himself pointed out that it is much easier to be extradited to the US from the UK (which extradites to the US almost anyone for pretty much any reason) than from Sweden (that as far as i know very rarely if ever extradites to the US).

If he was really afraid of being extradited to the US, he would want to be in Sweden rather than in the UK.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#78

Post by mathetic » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:31 PM UTC

objclxt wrote: post #57

rickmb wrote: post #47

Seems to me Assange isn't so much afraid of being extradited to US (there is a truckload of ways to fight that if it ever comes to that) but of actually being convicted in Sweden. The Piratebay trials have shown how corrupted the Swedish justice system can be, with both police, prosecution and judges having proven private connections with the copyright industry (which in itself is not only organized and financed by t…

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…

It depresses me that people are commenting on the issue without actually knowing what the investigation in Sweden is about.

I might be wrong but there is a slight difference between not wearing a condom and rape. I don't care if Sweden is calling consensual sex without condom rape. In Assange's case, he allegedly sabotaged his condom with one woman and allegedly refused to wear a condom with another one but he did not have sex with them against their will. Nobody can argue that because there are no signs of forceful sex.

IMO, this is crazy. There is no way of proving Assange right since only witnesses are two different women claiming similar accusations and the nature of the crime does not allow much evidence. It might sound like a crazy conspiracy theory (I take into account that even Canadian strategist called for Assange's assassination[1]), but somebody might be paying these two women (or threatening them) to lie in the court.

[2] http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=13391

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#79

Post by iand » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:32 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #39

Julian's situation seems very weird to me, given the stories about how secretive he was, how he kept in hiding, etc. At the same time, he was very clearly and publicly the face of wikileaks. Why did he not simply remain anonymous? All that Wikileaks has done could be done without having a public figurehead, right? Being public seems to have been the tactical error. (or was he trying to be anonymous, but got outed at…

My recollection was that Assange chose to be a figurehead to allow the other wikileaks members to remain anonymous. If that's true then it's been a superbly successful strategy.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#80

Post by planetguy » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:32 PM UTC

marshray wrote: post #68

DrJokepu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think that the Metropolitan Police is going to put officers outside the Ecuador Assembly 24/7 just in case Julian Assange leaves. It just doesn't sound like a good use of the officers' time.

The US would be happy to volunteer a few if it's a question of manpower. Britain would probably commit their own just to avoid that kind of situation. It just doesn't sound like a good use of the officers' time. They've had the guy detained without charge for 500-odd days. Facing some international criticism and generally looking like hypocrites whenever they want to criticize some other country for having political…

> The US would be happy to volunteer a few if it's a question of manpower

How many times? This is nothing to do with the US. This is a UK-Sweden extradition of an Australian citizen. If the US DoJ ever gets off its ass and decides to press charges against Julian Assange (they've been sitting on their hands for a couple of years now) it's not gonna do it via some subtle cloak-and-dagger six-country shuffle, it'll just show up with a letter that says "o hai extradition plz".