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Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

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Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#71

Post by tourmalinetaco »

nkrisc wrote: post #39
tourmalinetaco wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small truck has just as much possibility to kill as a big truck, and in fact due to the smaller application of similar forces its more likely to seriously cripple you, even if said hit was non-fatal. While I’m all for reducing the size of cars in USA, pretending that ”massive modern trucks” are the only ones that kill is just wrong.

You’ve simply got it backwards. More massive trucks with higher top speeds are more dangerous. An F-150 at 30mph is more dangerous than a Honda Fit at 30 mph.

I don’t believe I ever denied how dangerous large vehicles are? Although I see a lot of denial in the replies of the danger of smaller vehicles.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#72

Post by tourmalinetaco »

skeaker wrote: post #70
tourmalinetaco wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small truck has just as much possibility to kill as a big truck, and in fact due to the smaller application of similar forces its more likely to seriously cripple you, even if said hit was non-fatal. While I’m all for reducing the size of cars in USA, pretending that ”massive modern trucks” are the only ones that kill is just wrong.

Not sure how you can come to this conclusion. Seems obviously false by intuition, napkin math, and a cursory search.

The only way you can somehow NOT come to this conclusion is by denying that all vehicles, big or small, are dangerous and fooling yourself into thinking that there is some magical size where a multi-ton object going at 60MPH is somehow not a lethal force.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#73

Post by tourmalinetaco »

ejstronge wrote: post #30
tourmalinetaco wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small truck has just as much possibility to kill as a big truck, and in fact due to the smaller application of similar forces its more likely to seriously cripple you, even if said hit was non-fatal. While I’m all for reducing the size of cars in USA, pretending that ”massive modern trucks” are the only ones that kill is just wrong.

> A small truck has just as much possibility to kill as a big truck, and in fact due to the smaller application of similar forces its more likely to seriously cripple you, even if said hit was non-fatal. > While I’m all for reducing the size of cars in USA, pretending that ”massive modern trucks” are the only ones that kill is just wrong. The argument is that a larger truck is more likely to kill - instead of resulti…

There is also very obvious evidence that regardless of size you are overwhelmingly likely to die when hit by a vehicle and that in fact due to the application of force via the hood even in non-fatal crashes smaller vehicles have a higher chance to cripple you for life. I really shouldn’t be surprised that saying ‘getting hit by a car, regardless of size, is deadly’ on HN.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#74

Post by minebreaker »

filmor wrote: post #49
tsuru wrote: post #33

Japan has different standards and driving environment around kei cars (I'm going to use K-car going forward). - Their top speed limit even on highways is 100kmh / 60mph - K-cars have yellow license plates and yellow license plates are not allowed on highways I have a memory of seeing one of the infamous white K-trucks on an interstate in Nashville and was gobsmacked. These cars are not rated for highway / interstates…

Where does it say that K-cars are not allowed on highways? I'm certain that I saw quite a few, and I can find no source that says otherwise.

Yes, kei cars are sure allowed to drive on highways.

> Their top speed limit even on highways is 100kmh

That's an old standard. They're allowed to go up to 120km/h on some roads.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#75

Post by cuddlyogre »

digdugdirk wrote: post #52
cuddlyogre wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And several times the noise and pollution.

This is absolutely false. Any motorcycle you can buy in the US is required to meet both noise and pollution standards.

They might have to be that way to buy them new from the factory.

But the moment it belongs to you and even before you leave the lot, you can have illegal aftermarket exhaust systems installed that not one governing body in the United States, nor most of the rest of the world, will come close to enforcing any noise or emissions laws against.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#76

Post by cuddlyogre »

digdugdirk wrote: post #61
briHass wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For exhaust emissions, motorcycles are often dramatically worse than modern vehicles with catalytic converters. https://gearjunkie.com/motors/motorcycle-vs-vehicle-emission...

Of note, that article was mostly highlighting older motorcycles as dramatically worse when comparing them to newer vehicles. See this article to show how a modern motorcycle would be ~100x less polluting than the example vehicle given in the article referenced: https://www.acem.eu/new-euro-5-environmental-standard-for-mo...

Does that include motorcycles that have illegal aftermarket exhaust systems with all emission controls removed in an effort to make them as loud as possible? This accounts for about 80% of them, so it's irrelevant how they function by design.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#77

Post by pandaman »

jszymborski wrote: post #3

I really don't get the NA car market. There is a demand for small kei car/trucks as is natural with cities growing and parking dwindling. Yet even compacts are disappearing. My kingdom for an EV compact that is compact. Even the Fiat 500s and Mini Coops feel like they get bigger each year.

That's because of the fixed cost of making another model of a car. Look at what happened to Stellantis trying to bring Fiat 500: after three years of great sales it started to drop pretty quickly to the point where they sold only 16 in the 2023 [1]. Do they make enough profit from selling 16 (or even 1600) cheap cars to afford compliance with the US regulations (they need to crash several cars to get the NHTSA "stars", that's quite a cost even before the cost of the testing itself), stocking spare parts, training mechanics etc? And this is assuming they can sell just the euro model without any retooling, if they need to make a different model for the US market they also need to keep factories tooled for that, keep ordering parts etc.

1. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/fiat-500-sales-figures/

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#78

Post by pandaman »

consteval wrote: post #69
Amezarak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets brought up on HN every time the subject comes up but it doesn't make sense. It is true that, sensibly, emissions regulations are more relaxed as vehicles get larger. But smaller vehicles are still cheaper to make and sell for lower MSRPs than the same manufacturer's larger cars, and larger cars almost always hugely outsell them. Sadly, this has meant that a lot of small cars, like the Honda Fit, have been d…

Americans love them because of advertising. It's societal wide manipulation. For those who doubt the power of marketing, look no further than this case. American regularly buy worse cars, that don't last as long, and burn more fuel, and require more maintenance, with virtually no upside - purely because that's what's advertised and what makes people feel cool. And they know this is the case. They understand the purch…

Put two mountain bikes in a Prius and drive to a singletrack trailhead then tell again how it's objectively better. But on a serious note, there are many more reasons to have a truck than towing. I understand that it's disturbing when others don't share your needs or views, but saying "people other than myself are stupid and do things for silly reasons" is not adding to discussion quality.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#79

Post by consteval »

pandaman wrote: post #78
consteval wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans love them because of advertising. It's societal wide manipulation. For those who doubt the power of marketing, look no further than this case. American regularly buy worse cars, that don't last as long, and burn more fuel, and require more maintenance, with virtually no upside - purely because that's what's advertised and what makes people feel cool. And they know this is the case. They understand the purch…

Put two mountain bikes in a Prius and drive to a singletrack trailhead then tell again how it's objectively better. But on a serious note, there are many more reasons to have a truck than towing. I understand that it's disturbing when others don't share your needs or views, but saying "people other than myself are stupid and do things for silly reasons" is not adding to discussion quality.

> Put two mountain bikes in a Prius and drive to a singletrack trailhead then tell again how it's objectively better

Easy, nobody does that. Okay well not nobody... just almost nobody.

I'm working under the assumption (which I think is correct) that the majority of people who buy large vehicles use them identically to how they would a small one. That is, with usually a single passenger, on roadways, for a regular commute. There's some studies out there on how vehicles are used.

If this doesn't apply to you, then I think you're an outlier. But we're not talking about outliers. You'll notice everyone and their mom is driving an SUV or Truck. Especially when it comes to trucks, 99% of the time I see one its one dude in them, towing nothing, with nothing in the bed.

Even if you DO occasionally use your truck (most don't), you're still making a poor purchase. Because I can rent a day truck for 50 bucks. Let's see... save 30 grand, save hundreds of dollars on gas, save thousands on repairs... and then spend 50 bucks on a rental... let me just do my calculations... oh yeah, it's still obviously a better deal.

As I've said, nobody really wants to admit this sort of stuff because then you're admitting you've been manipulated and you're an irrational consumer (although almost all consumers are). This DOES contribute to the discussion, and I think you know what I'm saying is right. This is the sort of thing that is obvious to everyone, but talked about by no one, because of the implications.

Re: Mini imported Japanese vehicles may soon be banned on Massachusetts roads

#80

Post by skeaker »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #72
skeaker wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you can come to this conclusion. Seems obviously false by intuition, napkin math, and a cursory search.

The only way you can somehow NOT come to this conclusion is by denying that all vehicles, big or small, are dangerous and fooling yourself into thinking that there is some magical size where a multi-ton object going at 60MPH is somehow not a lethal force.

I mean it's just momentum = mass*velocity. Something with more mass inherently has more momentum, and will therefore be harder to stop in an emergency/hit harder when it crashes. That's obviously more dangerous no matter how you look at it. A penny going at 60 MPH at your head probably won't kill you but a truck will. A penny going 1000 MPH will probably kill you, but I wouldn't call a penny as dangerous as a truck even though they're both potentially lethal.
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