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Trainwreck Design

j3s.sh

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Re: Trainwreck Design

#71

Post by badsectoracula »

bheadmaster wrote: post #42

If your disk is mounted at root ("/"), which is the case of most default distro installs, you can run "df -h /" to get only your disk info: user@hostname:~$ df -h / Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sdc 1007G 49G 908G 6% /

This only shows a single disk.

I find it weird that despite having a bunch of options to control output and even filter things, df does not have an option to specify "show me only physical block devices and only once (my /dev/sda4 shows up for various mountpoints but still all show the same size/used/avail values)".

Re: Trainwreck Design

#72

Post by benrutter »

adrianN wrote: post #60
benrutter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an intentional aesthetic choice[0]. Hyperlinks would be convenient, but something about the raw text / ascii art vibe makes me happy everytime I read a blog post from j3s even if it doesn't have the conveniences of the modern web. [0] https://j3s.sh/about.html

Links are a convenience of the ancient web.

Haha, ok that's fair enough! I guess what I meant was something like "conveniences that are on most other contemporary websites"

Re: Trainwreck Design

#73

Post by creesch »

kantapproves wrote: post #63

Surprise, surprise. Let me be the contrarian: I dislike this attitude of dumbing everything down just because some people can't be bothered to learn how and why their tools work the way they do. They'll invoke "2024" like it means something. Not a great look IMO. The output of df and mount shows the truth as it is: raw and shitty. Don't dumb it down. Your version of usability might be my idea of a nightmare. I like t…

I feel like you missed the point of the article. As this

> The output of df and mount shows the truth as it is: raw and shitty.

Is pretty much the point they are making about Trainwreck Design. They are using their output of df as a talking point to illustrate the issue.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#74

Post by badsectoracula »

cybrox wrote: post #25
troupo wrote: post #11

This is the bazaar version of enshittification. In that the software becomes worse for the user, but for different reasons than in the commercial world. In the end users lose anyway

Yes but at least it's too many cooks spoil the broth and not the cook spat in your soup so now pay double and order a beverage subscription.

And if you know how to cook you can at least try and improve the food or make your own ingredients :-P

(ok the analogy starts breaking down at some point but you get the idea :-P)

Re: Trainwreck Design

#75

Post by marginalia_nu »

kantapproves wrote: post #63

Surprise, surprise. Let me be the contrarian: I dislike this attitude of dumbing everything down just because some people can't be bothered to learn how and why their tools work the way they do. They'll invoke "2024" like it means something. Not a great look IMO. The output of df and mount shows the truth as it is: raw and shitty. Don't dumb it down. Your version of usability might be my idea of a nightmare. I like t…

The problem is the raw shitty truth. Not that it isn't hidden, but the mess that it shows.

The underlying reason for this mess is that several popular tools, especially in the systemd and containerization-adjacent space, are built on a bunch of non-standardized userspace hacks (e.g. per-process tmpfs chroot jails) that pollute the mount table of the host system. That is the trainwreck.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#76

Post by nottorp »

topspin wrote: post #65
nottorp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... you have to use systemd tools to parse the output these days. Why are you even looking at this with the naked eye?

> Why are you even looking at this with the naked eye? My first instinct was to answer your question with a question. I'll avoid that. In the real world of devops, whatever you might have in mind as not "naked eye," fails. Deeply isolated systems, embedded systems, development environments, headless systems, virtualized systems, etc., don't have working GUIs, complex input devices or other high fidelity tools. You ge…

Yeah, I keep forgetting HN needs explicit sarcasm tags.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#77

Post by lucianbr »

larodi wrote: post #22

(most) Kids will likely never learn these command and attributes and output like we passionately did in 1994. LLMs be spittin' them command lines quick and correct, transpiled/translated from English/French/...Macedonian if you like. they already do, and it already helps a lot. Perhaps one may learn to remember and , but will definitely not care to produce by heart oneliner bash abominations sprinkled with sygils and…

> This whole article very true, but somewhat irrelevant to 2024.

The author is complaining about inconvenience. If I'm in the shell, and I want to see how much disk space I have, asking a LLM for a command then running the command then asking the LLM to parse it is still inconvenient, compared to just typing "df -h" and getting a reasonable output.

The fact that Claude or whoever can parse that output seems irrelevant to the article as I understand it. "AI" is not a magic silver bullet.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#78

Post by bheadmaster »

badsectoracula wrote: post #71
bheadmaster wrote: post #42

If your disk is mounted at root ("/"), which is the case of most default distro installs, you can run "df -h /" to get only your disk info: user@hostname:~$ df -h / Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sdc 1007G 49G 908G 6% /

This only shows a single disk. I find it weird that despite having a bunch of options to control output and even filter things, df does not have an option to specify "show me only physical block devices and only once (my /dev/sda4 shows up for various mountpoints but still all show the same size/used/avail values)".

In that case, you can use "-t ext4" (or whatever filesystem type you use) to show only disks formatted with this filesystem type.

On my machine, none of the snap/tmpfs/efivars stuff shows up:

    user@hostname:~$ df -ht ext4
    Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/sdc       1007G   49G  908G   6% /

Re: Trainwreck Design

#79

Post by efilife »

atoav wrote: post #53
efilife wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference between them and a simple hyperlink is that they can and often will provide some additional context It's possible to 'link' to a html tag, so the page jumps to the bottom, where the additional context is, much like wikipedia does

Yeah, if you read my post again, you will find that I mentioned this already.

Right, sorry. My only defense is that I just woke up half-dead
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