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US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

reuters.com

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Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#71

Post by maxerickson »

hiddencost wrote: post #55
amluto wrote: post #9

I would love to see the way that ownership of these devices is managed. I find it rather obnoxious that every child who may need epinephrine is supposed to keep their own device at school — this means that each student needs an extra device, and most of them just sit around until expiration. If the school could buy and store a reasonable number (funded, on a fractional basis, by the insurers of the students who need…

Liability. Not gonna happen.

Why not make the school liable for being unable to administer a simple treatment?

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#72

Post by viraptor »

makeitdouble wrote: post #69
viraptor wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how do you deal with a 60yo math teacher who just wants to teach and not manage health emergencies Is that an option? If you're an adult supervising kids over long enough time you will have an emergency. I remember at least 3 decent ones from primary school.

Isn't there a limitation on what teacher are allowed to do in most countries ? I'd assume a teacher usually doesn't have the right to give medication to a kid, at least that's the rule we had when discussion with the school.

> Isn't there a limitation on what teacher are allowed to do in most countries ?

Obviously, yes.

> I'd assume a teacher usually doesn't have the right to give medication to a kid

We're talking here about emergencies and epipens. That's a bit beyond the "right to give medication" and in the good Samaritan laws territory.

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#73

Post by sigseg1v »

maxerickson wrote: post #70
jessriedel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what the plausible alternative policy is. Each kid needs a personal one for when they are at home. They presumably should bring it with them to school for quick action and also for if they have an episode while commuting. The school could decline to carry them to save a bit of money each year, but it seems unwise to rely on (1) kids never forgetting their medication and (2) an adult always knowing…

Their complaint isn't that the school is stocking them. Their complaint is that each child that needs one available is required to provide a personal one to the school to store for use in case they have an emergency. So instead of the school managing and restocking a reasonable number, the parents restock one each year.

Wouldn't the "reasonable number" to stock be the same? Let's say there's 8 kids that need the EpiPen. If there was a food allergy incident, it could be something like a school lunch event which means they need at least enough for every kid since they might all get the same reaction from all eating the same food. From reading these replies it looks like you need 2 for each person just in case they require a second dose, and replace them once a year.

So:

- if school stocks them for 8 kids: they need to replace 16 every year

- if the 8 kids families supply the stocks: they need to, in aggregate, replace 16 every year

Same amount. Obviously better if the school pays, but I'm not understanding the "reasonable number" part.

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#74

Post by jessriedel »

maxerickson wrote: post #70
jessriedel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what the plausible alternative policy is. Each kid needs a personal one for when they are at home. They presumably should bring it with them to school for quick action and also for if they have an episode while commuting. The school could decline to carry them to save a bit of money each year, but it seems unwise to rely on (1) kids never forgetting their medication and (2) an adult always knowing…

Their complaint isn't that the school is stocking them. Their complaint is that each child that needs one available is required to provide a personal one to the school to store for use in case they have an emergency. So instead of the school managing and restocking a reasonable number, the parents restock one each year.

I see. Yea I mean it depends on how many kids need them. If it’s just one or two kids, I don’t see how to avoid it.

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#75

Post by maxerickson »

sigseg1v wrote: post #73
maxerickson wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their complaint isn't that the school is stocking them. Their complaint is that each child that needs one available is required to provide a personal one to the school to store for use in case they have an emergency. So instead of the school managing and restocking a reasonable number, the parents restock one each year.

Wouldn't the "reasonable number" to stock be the same? Let's say there's 8 kids that need the EpiPen. If there was a food allergy incident, it could be something like a school lunch event which means they need at least enough for every kid since they might all get the same reaction from all eating the same food. From reading these replies it looks like you need 2 for each person just in case they require a second dos…

Where did you come up with the kids all having the same sensitivities?

A kid that regularly eats peanut butter but is very sensitive to bee stings doesn't need to plan to avoid strawberries.

And at some point, training the on site responders to inject from a vial is going to be pretty worthwhile.

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#77

Post by Wevah »

mrbombastic wrote: post #67
retSava wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The needless part is the one I think of first. Our daughter is 10, and as soon as we bring up "here's an injector" to school personnel or friends parents when she's staying over, there's a frightened look in their eyes. This will allow us to be much more relaxed, since the risk of anyone panicking when administering is lower, the risk of doing it wrong is significantly lower, and the stigmata is also lower compared t…

nit: stigmata -> stigma.

Yes: “Stigmata” is the (a) plural of “stigma”.

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#78

Post by NavinF »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #35
NavinF wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, making things cheaper is always better. I'm just responding to the word "monopoly" which seems to get tossed around whenever anything is expensive without any thought on why it's expensive. The actual price of 2pk epipen is $109.99 and it lasts many years. As I mentioned in another comment, "Forty EpiPen and EpiPen Jr auto-injectors that had been expired for 1 to 50 months were tested. All 40 auto-injectors con…

> Sure, making things cheaper is always better. I'm just responding to the word "monopoly" which seems to get tossed around whenever anything is expensive without any thought on why it's expensive. Paying hundreds of millions of dollars to settle antitrust claims sounds like a monopoly to me. https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/how-mylan-ended-up-with-a... https://kffhealthnews.org/news/behind-the-epipen-monopoly-lo..…

Why are you linking 2016 articles in 2024? Back then the generic wasn't widely available

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#79

Post by NavinF »

TSP00N3 wrote: post #76

Any concern here of the nasal spray crossing the blood brain barrier in a way that the EpiPen doesn’t? I found a study from 2007 with semi-mixed results: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17472409/

The last 2 sentences of the abstract you linked:

> Of these, only two studies in rats were able to provide results that can be seen as an indication for direct transport from the nose to the CNS. No pharmacokinetic evidence could be found to support a claim that nasal administration of drugs in humans will result in an enhanced delivery to their target sites in the brain compared with intravenous administration of the same drug under similar dosage conditions

Re: US FDA approves nasal spray alternative to EpiPen for allergic reactions

#80

Post by toomuchtodo »

NavinF wrote: post #78
toomuchtodo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, making things cheaper is always better. I'm just responding to the word "monopoly" which seems to get tossed around whenever anything is expensive without any thought on why it's expensive. Paying hundreds of millions of dollars to settle antitrust claims sounds like a monopoly to me. https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/how-mylan-ended-up-with-a... https://kffhealthnews.org/news/behind-the-epipen-monopoly-lo..…

Why are you linking 2016 articles in 2024? Back then the generic wasn't widely available

Because options prevent further monopoly activity that was proven to have happened (citations provided). You seem to have some interest in avoiding the truth and facts around this topic, which is odd. First “there was no monopoly,” and then “well, it was a while ago so it doesn’t matter now.” It happened, and it could happen again. Also, it isn’t enough to be generic based on manufacturing complexity and capacity, which can create a monopoly situation for a generic.
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