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Apple is America's semiconductor problem

semiconductor-digest.com

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Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#71

Post by alephnerd »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

> I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author

Because it's Matt Stoller.

I've commented (with citations) enough on HN about Stoller's biases and issues around analysis [0][1]

He's upped his content publishing the past few months now that he is competing with Oren Cass to change mindshare and build a prominent profile, but Cass is a Romney protege so he's limited.

If Trump becomes president, Stoller is most likely going to be nominated as an FTC commissioner because of his close relationship to JD Vance [2]

[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40624532

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38147499

[2] - https://nationalpost.com/opinion/matt-stoller-whos-afraid-of...

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#72

Post by duxup »

malkosta wrote: post #67

The idea that introducing more regulations will foster the U.S. semiconductor industry doesn’t make sense. History shows that heavy regulation often stifles competition and innovation, leading to stagnation—similar to what happened in Russia’s outdated industries. Instead of imposing more rules that could entrench dominant players, the focus should be on creating an environment that encourages competition and innovat…

>the focus should be on creating an environment that encourages competition and innovation.

What would that be exactly? Seems like an easy thing to say without specifics, but things like environmental rules and minimum wage laws exist for reasons. If those are obstacles, I'm not sure they're worth discarding.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#73

Post by necovek »

causal wrote: post #46
duxup wrote: post #32

I have zero doubt Apple's influence is considerable and maybe monopolistic or something like that in a number of ways. But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I have no idea what some of the tidbits thrown in about the apple watch has anything to do with the topic. Let alone some of the heavy handed lines…

Yeah I'm a little confused by the premise. How would reshoring chip production be easier if Apple weren't out there buying chips? I get that they are buying up all of the TSMC chips in some segments. Doesn't that just create demand for an alternative? I can't cohere the themes of this article.

The point there seems to be that Apple is pretending to invest and align with moving production to US, but it's really gobbling up the entire foreign production and not at all interested in the "patriotic" narrative, even if they are marketing themselves as such.

Basically, it's mostly: Apple is lying with their marketing, here's what proves they really don't care about moving production to US, but only about price and their profit margins.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#74

Post by [deleted] »

alephnerd wrote: post #71
asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

> I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author Because it's Matt Stoller. I've commented (with citations) enough on HN about Stoller's biases and issues around analysis [0][1] He's upped his content publishing the past few months now that he is competing with Oren Cass to change mindshare and build a prominent profile, but Cass is a Romney protege so he's limited. If Trump becomes president, Stoller is most likely g…

[deleted]

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#75

Post by downWidOutaFite »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

You don't think that's a pretty good proxy for units? Especially leading edge parts.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#76

Post by EarlKing »

joatmon-snoo wrote: post #33

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Sure, Apple offshoring their semiconductor mfg compounded the US' lack of domestic semiconductor mfg capacity/expertise. Apple also did that because it is a _business_, and has not always been the behemoth it is today. They went overseas because it made more sense, not because they had some anti-American goal of crippling US mfg capabilities. The AELP is, ideologically, a anti-big-co instit…

Yeah, it made sense to management looking to increase shareholder value. OTOH, since Apple isn't competing on price, they didn't have to do that. So everything that has ever, or will ever, go wrong with their devices is an entirely self-inflicted wound, and anyone who buys their products gets exactly what they deserve for buying from a company that cares more about profits than the people.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#77

Post by darklion »

bsder wrote: post #56
WheatMillington wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you mentioned could be described as a monopoly. Monopoly has a definition, we can't just make it up as we go.

The definition of monopoly has changed drastically over the course of time and will continue to do so. Regardless of what you call it, any market vertical that you can define with less than 5 genuine competitors invariably winds up being anti-consumer and needs to get broken up. Apple is the focus here, but Google is no better and neither is Microsoft. Search, messaging, email, video--all of these are easily definabl…

> All of these need to get broken up until we have at least a half-dozen competing companies in those spaces.

You seem to be forgetting, we had your “at least a half-dozen competing companies" situation in the past. It was called the late 2000s and the early 2010s. And the reason it disappeared is not the traditional “everybody merges until only two or three are left standing”, it’s because iOS and Android were so much better than the competition that every other phone manufacturer starved to death or switched to Android.

By the time a new generation of smartphones with sufficiently-equivalent OSes had arrived — in the form of webOS and Microsoft Phone — iOS and Android were so established the newcomers couldn’t successfully compete.

Even today, while there are only two major OSes, there are still numerous successfully competing manufacturers: Samsung, Google, Apple, OnePlus, BLU, Lenovo/Motorola, Huwaei, Xiaomi, Vivo, Oppo, etc. They all make mobile phones, with varying levels of market share across the world.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#78

Post by bgnn »

gvkhna wrote: post #8

Intel also worked on modems for a long time, ultimately abandoning it and selling it to Apple, who has also not been able to bear fruit with that yet. Modems are hard but Intel with their experience could’ve stuck it out and had a competitive modem chip but instead focused on short term profits which have evaporated now. Note I own shares in both companies.

AFAIK Intel went into modem business with Infineon wireless acquisition at 2015, which was doing fine but dold due to global financial crisis. Intel, as always it does with acquisitions, turned this acquired business into a money pit. They forced all the designs to be ported to Intel fab processes but Intel fabs didn't care about any design business especially a side design (unlike TSMC). Apple leveraged Intel wireless as a bargaining chip against Broadcom and Qualcomm. At the end Apple acqui-hired the people from this unit. I see that Apple is much more serious than Intel to get it done.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#79

Post by necovek »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #25

Lol, maybe the author should ask himself if we ban Apple will we then see the American semiconductor industry boom and take over the world? If not, then the logic is strenuous at best, you just viscerally hate Apple and want to find reasons to blame it as opposed to doing anything constructive for the American Semiconductor Industry. Something constructive would involve fixing the work ethic of American Semiconductor…

You don't "ban Apple", you ban some of the tactics and behaviors they are exhibiting. They mention as positive examples US government banning trade with a Chinese memory chip fab (which was receiving subsidies from government to maintain a 20% lower price) which "forced" Apple to rely on an American fab (that's the implication, even if both Micron and South Korean Samsung are mentioned).

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#80

Post by warkdarrior »

FrankWilhoit wrote: post #40

Two hundred years ago, it was understood that national borders were things that neither persons, nor goods, nor money, nor information should routinely cross. That understanding was correct and necessary, and must perforce be regained, after who knows what further unnecessary harm has been done.

Do you have examples of countries from 200 years ago that had closed borders? In the vast majority of cases, borders were open, for a fee.
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