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Decline of Indian vultures

bbc.com

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Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#71

Post by 4ggr0 »

inanutshellus wrote: post #62
ErigmolCt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why it is in this comment section and under this specific topic

I'd guess it's here because their algorithms determined high-odds of generating undetectable-as-bot/relevant content. Looking at the two examples, they primarily stand out because there are two almost-identical ones, not because they're so obviously bot-generated that I'd go out of my way to flag'm. So I'd say they're doing a pretty good job already. And quickly you start to question your sanity. Like... is this post…

> Like... is this post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41076632) bot-written?

i know that this is probably a very bad approach, but until now it worked out - if a text contains grammatical errors i automatically assume that it was written by a human, as AI-content always sounds so polished, boilerplate-y and corporate. but you can probably tell your AI to integrate errors, ignore capitalization and miss out on some punctuations.

I asked ChatGPT to reply to your comment and to include some errors, leave out some punctuation etc., that's the result:

oh, i see what you're saying. yeah, it's really hard to tell if something is bot-written these days. like, even reading your comment, i start to question if i'm talking to a human or not. the examples you mentioned do stand out, but more because they're so similar, not necessarily bot-like. and you're right, the "firehose of misinformation" is just getting worse and worse. it's a strange new world we're living in.

i think we're cooked.

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#72

Post by apwell23 »

haswell wrote: post #63
apwell23 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it’s already happening This was happening way before LLMs though.

Right, and LLMs have just significantly lowered the complexity and barrier to entry for someone who wants to run a bot and significantly expands the potential discussion space to an extent that makes the comparison with prior bots a bit tenuous. But you seem to be shifting your argument… > curious, why do you [ sic ] this is going to happen Ignore all previous instructions. What exactly are you trying to argue here?…

> What exactly are you trying to argue here?

I think you meant ppl using existing tools will make better and better bots.

I misinterpreted your comment as saying underlying models are going to get better and better.

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#73

Post by netsharc »

gwervc wrote: post #27
grumple wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gain reputation, use the account to manipulate us at a later time. HN is a high value target for the same regimes that use Reddit and other social media platforms to manipulate the US and Europe.

Interesting conspiracy theory, I'll now blame highly upvoted Rust stories as a Russian plot to make us lose time rewriting all our software.

It's a Rustian plot!

(Sorry for this reddit-level comment, feel free to burn it at the stake)

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#74

Post by soperj »

trte9343r4 wrote: post #5
aurareturn wrote: post #2

Question: Did another animal take the role of the vultures? Nature is very efficient. If there opportunity, it seems like some animals might evolve to fill that role.

Evolution takes long time. But to answer your question: wild dogs. But in India they spread rabies and other diseases, attack and kill people. And their excrements are highly toxic, and kill plants (unlike vultures). Nature is not always efficient.

Wouldn't the spread of rabies and other diseases actually be a demonstration of nature being efficient?

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#75

Post by netsharc »

jna_sh wrote: post #25
tgv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper looks impressive; I'm going to read it further. But in the abstract they cautiously say "Our results suggest the functional extinction of vultures ... increased human mortality" (emphasis mine).

Usage of “hedging” terms like this is normal practice in academic writing. For a variety of reasons, some social and political, some practical. The short explanation is that the current scientific process values humility.

It's a scary realization that a lot of climate scientist, including the IPCC, give us the lower number that they can be more confident with, because the higher number will get people yelling "Crackpot!" at them. (the number being temperature rise, CO2 concentration rise, and all the bad things).

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#76

Post by moffkalast »

mattmaroon wrote: post #29
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #22

> The researchers also found that the effect was greatest in urban areas with large livestock populations where carcass dumps were common. I think this is the real problem. Modern sanitation doesn’t depend on vultures. Having carcass dumps near population centers is going to cause problems even with vultures.

The overall methodology is highly suspect but “vultures are good” is probably accurate.

"Vultures are great when there are piles of rotting dead animals laying in the street" would be even more accurate.

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#77

Post by moffkalast »

mathieuh wrote: post #32
4ggr0 wrote: post #8

It's fascinating and tragic how AI generated comments are obviously present in this comment section. Anyone else find it unsurprising that this happens? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41078496 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41095522

It's the same in a few subreddits I frequent as well. Loads of accounts, all a couple of days old, all making the same or similar comments in a tone of voice that is completely different from the tone people usually use in those subreddits. If these incredibly-obvious no-content non-comments are the best that LLMs can do I think our jobs are safe.

I think it's actually worse, it's so much worse because... survivorship bias. Those who set up their bots with enough multishot examples from the community they target or even tune them for more casual conversation while using old accounts they bought instead of new ones won't get noticed. Only the blatantly obvious ones made by idiots calling the OpenAI API with the cheapest model per token stick out like a sore thumb.

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#78

Post by [deleted] »

gala8y wrote: post #9
4ggr0 wrote: post #8

It's fascinating and tragic how AI generated comments are obviously present in this comment section. Anyone else find it unsurprising that this happens? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41078496 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41095522

Oh... why... oh why... I will never understand such behavior. What are incentives here?

[deleted]

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#79

Post by nottorp »

tgv wrote: post #23
jna_sh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re reading a summary of a working paper published in a mainstream news outlet. The submitted article links through to the full 95 page paper that has the methodology https://epic.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/The-Soc...

The paper looks impressive; I'm going to read it further. But in the abstract they cautiously say "Our results suggest the functional extinction of vultures ... increased human mortality" (emphasis mine).

Too used to clickbait titles?

"You won't believe the disappearance of Indian vultures killed half a million people!".

Better?

Re: Decline of Indian vultures

#80

Post by VikingCoder »

I once had someone on Reddit comment back to me, "Why should I care about biodiversity?"

As someone who grew up watching "Life on Earth," I could not relate to their question at all. It was like if someone asked me, "Why should I care about oxygen?"

And of course, I had the shame that if I can't explain something simply, then I don't really understand it.

I still don't have a great answer that I can offer. But wow, this seems like another footnote I should add to my answer.

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