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Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

abc.net.au

71–80 of 97 posts

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#72

People consider Sparrows pests?

There are many kinds of sparrows, but the one people usually refer to as a pest is the Eurasian House Sparrow. Can be found on 6 continents, reproduces quickly, and are gregarious (most other sparrows don't live in groups). I find their antics to be interesting, but they're aggressive to other birds, especially for nesting sites (and they'll nest anywhere, unlike many of the birds they compete with).

They are only a pest outside their home range. In the UK they are in decline.

"Conservation of the house sparrow

Data suggests the UK's house sparrow population declined by 66% between 1977 and 2015, with urban populations faring worse than rural ones."

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/house-sparrow-passer-domestic...

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#73

Instead of testing sparrows to infer blood lead in children why not just test the children?

In the specific case of this study they tested both (and looked back at historic records) and now know that sparrows make a very good proxy for human results.

This is useful because:

    The Macquarie University environmental scientist and PhD candidate said collecting blood samples from people, especially children, can be difficult to conduct, and can raise significant logistical and ethical issues.

    As a result, data on children's blood lead levels is unavailable in many parts of Australia where communities intersect with mining and smelting operations.
~ Linked article, towards the end.

It's also not just Australia where human proxies are useful.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#75
post #73

Instead of testing sparrows to infer blood lead in children why not just test the children?

In the specific case of this study they tested both (and looked back at historic records) and now know that sparrows make a very good proxy for human results. This is useful because: The Macquarie University environmental scientist and PhD candidate said collecting blood samples from people, especially children, can be difficult to conduct, and can raise significant logistical and ethical issues. As a result, data on…

> collecting blood samples from people, especially children, can be difficult to conduct, and can raise significant logistical and ethical issues.

Really? Children visit family doctors relatively often in my experience and taking a blood sample is a trivial and routine task for the nurse at my GP's surgery. What ethical issue is there?

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#76
I once moved to a home in Hamburg, and coming from Southern Germany, I didn't even know that it could be possible, but then in the mail came a letter, warning that we have been drinking water with 16x the amount of allowed lead, because the home was from before the 50s and had all lead pipes. We lived there just for a few months, but my daughter drank the water (me, too, but I am not that worried).

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#77
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the specific case of this study they tested both (and looked back at historic records) and now know that sparrows make a very good proxy for human results. This is useful because: The Macquarie University environmental scientist and PhD candidate said collecting blood samples from people, especially children, can be difficult to conduct, and can raise significant logistical and ethical issues. As a result, data on…

> collecting blood samples from people, especially children, can be difficult to conduct, and can raise significant logistical and ethical issues. Really? Children visit family doctors relatively often in my experience and taking a blood sample is a trivial and routine task for the nurse at my GP's surgery. What ethical issue is there?

> in my experience

Well, that's all that counts then I guess, never mind the stated opinion of medical researchers in the field with broader experience.

Christian Scientists and Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose blood transfusions and small town groups (which can be quite large in specific towns and non existant in others) can oppose blood samples also.

Various indiginous groups within Australia and elsewhere can be opposed to medical tests .. for fear of being guinea pigs in experiments again. Some people just don't like giving samples.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's test swabs for leaded paint, but I don't know if they'd be sensitive enough for food. At least where I live, they're pretty cheap, so it could be an interesting experiment. I remember seeing an article a while ago, where some local councils here specifically recommended building raised garden beds for veggie gardens. They apparently found, that in cities/towns older than about a hundred years, the risk of soi…

Yeah, City Slickers in Oakland stopped testing the soil and just told everyone that they should use raised beds. Problem is that there are so many fruit trees and self starting plants that I want to eat (I'm looking at you collards), but I'd like to know what I'm getting into. Also I've read that sunflowers are really good at pulling up heavy metals, and all of the bags that I purchase have warning labels on them. I'…

IIRC sunflowers store heavy metals in their fatty tissues, which means it's particularly concentrated in their seeds, so if you're using them to pull heavy metals out of your soil you should probably be sending the wilted plant away at the end of the season, seeds and all.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Town mayors usually try to cover up and deny any evidence of lead poisoning After moving to the West from a developing country was surprised to discover that things our politicians do for a big bribe western politicians sometimes do for free.

That's because the seat of power in the west is not with governments at all, but with business. The gov't ends up being there to keep them happy and avoid conflicts between them. They've mostly stripped themselves of the ability to do anything they could be bribed over.

It’s rarely that sinister on the political level in my experience. Having worked a decade in the Danish public sector with access to the higher echelons of decision making I’ve never really witnessed influence or blatant corruption amongst the elected official. Well, there is influence but it’ll typically be along the lines of getting better road access or being allowed to expand in zones that weren’t really meant for it. Not because of personal gain but because jobs are just so valuable to a political administration.

Where things get more complicated is typically with the unelected administration. Basically you can view most political decision making as an administration working out action plans and presenting them to politicians. Which is a good concept, until people stop participating in things like public hearings. Because the officials who work in the administration are professional and politicians in cities are often… well you or me. This means that it’s sort of easy for officials to influence decision making by writing and presenting the different action plans in ways where they know which are more likely to be selected. This is sometimes influenced by corruption, and usually that gets caught eventually around here. It’s much more often that it’s simply influenced by the different silos protecting themselves. Which will lead to bad decision making.

Now, I mentioned things like public hearings earlier and these are actually immensely influential because most politicians are actually very open to hear from the public. The big issue is that most of the people who attend or respond to public hearings are either fanatics or crackpots. When regular people actually participate in their local democracy they can have a huge influence, much more so than both administration and business, but people don’t. I’m not a saint myself, it’s been more than a decade since I even bothered to read the proposals which are sent to me. To make things even worse, fewer and fewer people register as members of political parties which means they give up their influence on selecting candidates and when it’s time to vote, many simply vote on a party, not on a specific candidate. So we’re gradually giving over power to anyone who actually does participate, which is often going to be business.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#80
post #3

Lead poisoning in Australian mining towns is a surprisingly contentious issue. Town mayors usually try to cover up and deny any evidence of lead poisoning, because without the mines, there is no town. The broken hill that the town of Broken Hill is named after no longer exists. The mullock heap pictured in the article is all that remains: the entire hill was dug away when the original mine was active. As you can see…

Always a pleasure to see we're in a good company. I've had the misfortune of being raised in this place: https://maps.app.goo.gl/aXkHEfX42aNp2yxV9 Combine a large lead smelting plant with one of the world's largest producers of (unenriched) uranium, and a dozen other metals like copper and zinc. Add zero effective environmental regulation on top, and you get us. According to government data, lead concentrations in th…

Just looking at that location on the map, it struck me how 'continental' it was, i.e. how inland it was. Turns out it's actually pretty near Eurasia's "Pole of inaccessibility", which is basically on the border between Kazakhstan and China [1].

As an Australian, I find our vast hinterland somewhat intimidating and haven't spent much time there. Like most Australians I live on its coastline. I also feel somewhat intimidated by Eurasia's vast inner continent, but also curious about it too. Would love to visit Kazakhstan sometime, but maybe not your hometown.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_of_inaccessibility#Eurasi...

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