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"Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

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Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#71

Post by dralley »

lolinder wrote: post #68
wizee wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla is like Wikipedia, where the vast majority of the funds they receive go to causes unrelated to development or maintenance of their core product (web browser or encyclopedia).

For example, acquiring ad companies.

Mozilla Foundation did not acquire an ad company, and none of their dollars can be legally used to acquire and ad company. Once again, HNers fail to understand the difference between Mozilla Corporation and Mozilla Foundation, and conflate all their criticisms.

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#72

Post by CrendKing »

This gives me impression like what happens to the nuclear weapon proliferation. At beginning, it is an arms race, between US and USSR, between users and advertisers. Either side thinks they can't survive without vanquishing the other. Eventually they realize it is stupid to continue, and reach a point to both step back.

I think Mozilla is at the point where they realize it is no longer beneficial to continue the race against advertisers. It is time to collaborate. This way both users, advertisers, and maybe Mozilla themselves can all benefit from stepping back one foot.

I personally support this move. Morally speaking, content creators I consume deserve income from my visit, as long as my privacy is preserved. Seems a good compromise if it works.

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#73

Post by mulmen »

openrisk wrote: post #69

Q: How many people are using a web browser on a daily basis worldwide as their main window to the collective infosphere? A: Billions. Q: What fraction of the corresponding GDP would it take to fund a serious browser-as-public-good initiative that would develop this technology to its full potential without the perverse constraints of adtech business models? A: 0.0001%? Too small to compute? The idea that critical comm…

> There are more ways to fund things than either adtech or dazed and confused individuals paying/donating directly for software.

Like what?

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#74

Post by hot_gril »

david_draco wrote: post #7

It is obvious why Firefox does this though; they have no income otherwise like Google does. Firefox users somehow think that using is "supporting" Mozilla/Firefox, but it is not, and they would not pay for the browser, or pay a subscription free. Privacy-friendly ads are a reasonable way for Mozilla to survive long-term -- if they are indeed privacy-friendly. Ultimately you probably either need a clean-room NGO that…

Besides money, market share must also be important for Firefox. Otherwise the web becomes Chromium-only.

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#75

Post by janice1999 »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #53
BenjiWiebe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

about:config works on Android Firefox nightly. Just checked.

hm, should I use the stable version, but be tracked, or should I use Nightly, and risk crashes and catastrophic loss of data choices, choices

I believe the unbranded Firefox build on F-Droid (called Fennec) enabled it even on stable releases.

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#76

Post by elashri »

CrendKing wrote: post #72

This gives me impression like what happens to the nuclear weapon proliferation. At beginning, it is an arms race, between US and USSR, between users and advertisers. Either side thinks they can't survive without vanquishing the other. Eventually they realize it is stupid to continue, and reach a point to both step back. I think Mozilla is at the point where they realize it is no longer beneficial to continue the race…

> content creators I consume deserve income from my visit, as long as my privacy is preserved

I doubt that most people in these discussions wouldn't agree with that point. The problem lies in the details. Advertisers don't take anything less that complete personalized targeting. We are not in the 2000s era of buying ad space on related websites/forums anymore. The problem is there are misalignment between targeted ads and privacy. And I didn't find all the proposal for anonymity successful, it is always possible to de-anonmize the data.

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#77

Post by lapcat »

Mozilla has been working with Meta on this.

"For the last few months we have been working with a team from Meta (formerly Facebook) on a new proposal that aims to enable conversion measurement – or attribution – for advertising called Interoperable Private Attribution, or IPA." https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/privacy-preserving-attri...

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#78

Post by lolinder »

kredd wrote: post #37
dtech wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, you cannot pay for Firefox even if you wanted to*, so the assertion that people wouldn't pay is unproven (but has good circumstancial evidence). I'd still prefer they make a paid version without this crap. * Donations to Mozilla go to a non profit which is separated from Firefox development and has questionable effectiveness in general

After all these "I would pay for Firefox if I could" comments, it would be fun for Mozilla to start a Gofundme like page, where if it hits $300M (or whatever amount they're getting from Google per year) they'll make it an option, otherwise they'll go back to trying to find another revenue source. It's very hard to believe that an average user would ever pay for a browser, when alternatives like Chrome and Safari exis…

You're attacking two strawmen:

1. The average user doesn't have to pay for the browser in a donation model, you just need enough users to feel passionately enough about it to fund it sufficiently to develop it.

2. No one is arguing that Mozilla should replace their revenue from Google overnight with donations. We're just asking that Mozilla give us the option to pay for Firefox already.

Another user (trying to demonstrate to me that donations would never be enough [0]) figured that if we assume a similar rate of donations as Thunderbird gets then Firefox would bring in $70m/year just in donations.

That is a heck of a lot of money. That funds 140 developers even at inflated Bay Area salaries, 280 developers if you're willing to branch out of the Bay and offer closer to $200k/year on average as a base salary (still an insanely high average rate in most of the country and the world). Even if you took a full 50% for general/administrative and overhead, that sum would still pay for 70 bay-area or 140 rest-of-the-world developers.

If Mozilla really does need more developers than that for Firefox specifically, then fine, they can keep accepting money from Google—no one is saying they should only be funded by donations. But that they don't even make it an option is frankly bizarre.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40901664

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#79

Post by jacknews »

The fact they didn't loudly announce this 'feature' has seriously undermined their trustworthiness, for me at least.

What's the expression; 'So much depends on reputation. Guard it with your life'. Mozilla seem to be just throwing it away.

Re: "Firefox added [ad tracking] and has already turned it on without asking you"

#80

Post by johnnyanmac »

billfor wrote: post #64
thangalin wrote: post #22

1. Visit about:config 2. Set dom.private-attribution.submission.enabled to false I've added the configuration value to the following page: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Privacy/Privacy_Task_Force/firefox_... I'm not affiliated with Mozilla, but I do understand how wikis work. ;-)

Looks like the windows build for 127 didn't have it but it's there in 128. Updating to 128.0 adds the preference (defaulted to true) and also the new "Website Advertising Preferences", which seems to control the same preference. I would just uncheck the box as it's right there on the Security page.

Thanks, I just updated to 128, and found the setting under Settings -> Security -> Website Advertising Preferences. I wish I could be surprised that this was opt-out by default, but when you know how Mozilla is funded it all clicks.
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