Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tour de France riders are inhaling carbon monoxide in 'super altitude' recipe

escapecollective.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–77 of 77 posts

Re: Tour de France riders are inhaling carbon monoxide in 'super altitude' recipe

#71

Post by its_ethan »

LargeWu wrote: post #70
scott_w wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think people are trying to say it's a zero skill sport. I didn’t say you were, you were saying that there’s less skill involved, which is outright untrue. > in sports like soccer or basketball, skills like dribbling or shooting accuracy don't have a skill "cap" and are generally uncorrelated to physiology. Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Me…

> Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Messi, yet haven’t a fraction of his footballing ability. This is counter to your thesis. Messi's dominance doesn't come because he has elite physical characteristics. He's dominant because his level of skill with the ball at his foot is an outlier even among elites. It's not because he's pushing the physical limits…

I’ve given up on this thread because people seem to be getting very defensive and interpreting malice when there is none, but your comment here is similar to what I was trying to say. Cycling has a tighter bell curve of skill than other sports, just like all/most endurance sports.

It’s not a knock, I still enjoy those sports a lot, often more than wider skill bell curve sports.. oh well

Re: Tour de France riders are inhaling carbon monoxide in 'super altitude' recipe

#72

Post by scott_w »

LargeWu wrote: post #70
scott_w wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think people are trying to say it's a zero skill sport. I didn’t say you were, you were saying that there’s less skill involved, which is outright untrue. > in sports like soccer or basketball, skills like dribbling or shooting accuracy don't have a skill "cap" and are generally uncorrelated to physiology. Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Me…

> Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Messi, yet haven’t a fraction of his footballing ability. This is counter to your thesis. Messi's dominance doesn't come because he has elite physical characteristics. He's dominant because his level of skill with the ball at his foot is an outlier even among elites. It's not because he's pushing the physical limits…

> This is counter to your thesis.

No, it’s because his skill is deeply tied to his body’s physiology. I wager you’d find physical traits that you simply must be born with. His height, balance, reaction times. Physiology.

> Most riders are going to be pretty closely matched skill-wise

This is true for all sports.

> winners are going to be those that can generate the most power for a sustained amount of time.

Strategy comes into it a lot, just like most sports.

Also, there’s plenty of talented footballers that will never go pro because they lack the ability to run fast or maintain that intensity for 90 minutes (fitness).

Re: Tour de France riders are inhaling carbon monoxide in 'super altitude' recipe

#73

Post by scott_w »

its_ethan wrote: post #71
LargeWu wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Messi, yet haven’t a fraction of his footballing ability. This is counter to your thesis. Messi's dominance doesn't come because he has elite physical characteristics. He's dominant because his level of skill with the ball at his foot is an outlier even among elites. It's not because he's pushing the physical limits…

I’ve given up on this thread because people seem to be getting very defensive and interpreting malice when there is none, but your comment here is similar to what I was trying to say. Cycling has a tighter bell curve of skill than other sports, just like all/most endurance sports. It’s not a knock, I still enjoy those sports a lot, often more than wider skill bell curve sports.. oh well

> he said less in comparison with other professional sports.

No, we’re taking umbrage with the fact that people are saying cycling requires less skill, when this simply isn’t true. It requires different skills, that’s all.

Re: Tour de France riders are inhaling carbon monoxide in 'super altitude' recipe

#74

Post by LargeWu »

scott_w wrote: post #73
its_ethan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve given up on this thread because people seem to be getting very defensive and interpreting malice when there is none, but your comment here is similar to what I was trying to say. Cycling has a tighter bell curve of skill than other sports, just like all/most endurance sports. It’s not a knock, I still enjoy those sports a lot, often more than wider skill bell curve sports.. oh well

> he said less in comparison with other professional sports. No, we’re taking umbrage with the fact that people are saying cycling requires less skill, when this simply isn’t true. It requires different skills, that’s all.

No, you're still not getting it.

It's not that it requires less skill, relative to an average person. It's that skill is not the differentiating factor among elites.

Re: Tour de France riders are inhaling carbon monoxide in 'super altitude' recipe

#75

Post by scott_w »

LargeWu wrote: post #74
scott_w wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he said less in comparison with other professional sports. No, we’re taking umbrage with the fact that people are saying cycling requires less skill, when this simply isn’t true. It requires different skills, that’s all.

No, you're still not getting it. It's not that it requires less skill, relative to an average person. It's that skill is not the differentiating factor among elites.

I’ve answered this here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40965857

There’s plenty of amateur footballers more skilful than professionals, yet can’t make it because they lack the physical attributes (speed/strength/stamina). I’ve watched high skill teams shredded by a team that just shoved them off the ball and outran them. Barcelona’s style under Pep wasn’t mostly skill, it included a HUGE amount of physical fitness to maintain a press to win the ball back.

A massive part of Rooney’s rapid decline was his shit lifestyle reducing his fitness and speed as he grew older.

Re: Tour de France riders are inhaling carbon monoxide in 'super altitude' recipe

#76

Post by ElGreco »

LargeWu wrote: post #74
scott_w wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he said less in comparison with other professional sports. No, we’re taking umbrage with the fact that people are saying cycling requires less skill, when this simply isn’t true. It requires different skills, that’s all.

No, you're still not getting it. It's not that it requires less skill, relative to an average person. It's that skill is not the differentiating factor among elites.

I'm a keen cyclist (doing and watching); the elite differentiator is aerobic capacity (anaerobic for sprinters) not skill. Going fast up a hill wins GC and require no skill. Going fast down is more skilful but less important.
Post reply on HN