Wait, aren't third places public places? Like, squares or parks? I thought commercial establishments were second places.
Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
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Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
In LA, every small locally owned coffee shop has become totally overrun with folks buying one latte and proceeding to take a whole table to themselves and their laptops for the next 5 hours.
>every small locally owned coffee shop has become totally overrun with folks buying one latte and proceeding to take a whole table to themselves and their laptops for the next 5 hours. That's what a third place is and what people are lamenting the lack of now.
No, that’s what a second place is. A third place is for socialization, a second place is for work. Just because you’re relying on some independent small business owner to pay rent for your desk while you prevent other customers from patronizing the establishment and don’t talk to anyone, doesn’t make it a third place.
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#73Wait, aren't third places public places? Like, squares or parks? I thought commercial establishments were second places.
they are second places only if you work there, I think
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#74Wait, aren't third places public places? Like, squares or parks? I thought commercial establishments were second places.
A second place is your office, ie commercial spaces where you are an employee
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#75Unfortunately, Starbucks is opening “kiosk only” locations with no seating that, obviously, fail to function as a third place. My partner finished up a medical appointment and was waiting for me to arrive, and decided to stop in Starbucks. Oops, just a kiosk. The options left for a “third place” was a petrol station that had seating and a grocery store. Somehow I don’t think petrol station seating areas will promotin…
> I don’t need a kiosk; I have an espresso machine I can operate at home or in the office. You would probably enjoy the experience of a small, locally owned coffee shop then. Starbucks is optimizing for their profit. In my suburban city, Starbucks has closed most or all locations that were a few miles from the freeway. They built new locations with drive throughs and very little to no seating within a few blocks of e…
It appears they have optimized a decent metric (profit) to such a degree that it starts doing harm.
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#76The study basically compared neighborhoods that received a Starbucks versus neighborhoods that did not. What if Starbucks decided to open in those neighborhoods because of some confounding factor that suggested an increase in economic activity?
> We find that, when compared to census tracts that were scheduled to receive a Starbucks but did not do so There still might be a confounders, but they at least tried to control for that.
Makes me wonder why Starbucks planned to open there, but didn't... Maybe a weak economy in the area
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#77Wait, aren't third places public places? Like, squares or parks? I thought commercial establishments were second places.
Not really , no, squares don't really exist in neighborhoods, and parks are almost as rare.
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#78I've noticed students working in the IKEA Cafes here in Australia! They offer similar benefits to a good sized Starbucks store. Free charging points, WiFi, bench seating in secluded corners and so on. Though I'd wager that WiFi is less important, as people have mobile plans with plenty of data. Given the accommodation crises in Australia, I'd suspect many students dont have a decent place to study in their homes. Man…
Lol. I wonder if ikea cafes are similar to the restaurants in ikea. I was under the impression they were subsidized. Additionally, they are a "trap" - easy to enter, but exiting requires you to walk the gauntlet of products for sale downstairs.
Every IKEA might be different, so YMMV, but there usually are (sometimes well-hidden) shortcuts.
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#79Wait, aren't third places public places? Like, squares or parks? I thought commercial establishments were second places.
Indeed, we should at least differentiate between third places that you have to pay for or are otherwise restricted, and that you don't have to.
Re: Third Places and Neighborhood Entrepreneurship: Evidence from Starbucks Cafés
#80There’s a nice coffee shop near me but they have somewhat hostile policies toward people wanting to sit on their laptops and work for hours, which makes it hard to be a decent third place. On weekends, laptops are banned entirely.
People sitting on their laptops, usually with headphones, are actually themselves hostile to third places and that's why some cafes ban them on weekends. The definition of a third place is fully incompatible with it being just a remote work location: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
The issue is that its a starbucks. I think if people are trying to hang out with their friends, at this point in 2024 they are not going to waste that moment of everyone's schedules aligning like the planets at merely starbucks. I hope at least. Not to mention the menu is basically optimized not to have you stay and hang out, its prepackaged or microwaved stuff, unlike most other local cafes where they will serve you hot food on ceramic dishware.