Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Windows Azure Dance Routine

geekwire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–79 of 79 posts

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#71

Post by gojomo »

Those taking offense are on too much of a hair-trigger.

Take it in context:

• This is in Norway, a very gender-egalitarian place (but also more open to sexual topics). They have the confidence to understand – and shrug off – things that are meant as goofy jokes, even if, when forwarded to a different context for the specific purpose of triggering a reaction, some can then find offense.

• The music is definitely in the style of the (big-in-northern-Europe) band 'Scooter'. (A commenter at Geeklist implies it is Scooter, I think it's just in their style.) That style is over-the-top, self-parodying. (See for example the music video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KL5bw6Mbho which mixes the lyrics of a campy 1979 european disco hit, acid-trip religious imagery, topless revelers, rapper braggadocio, a cryptic shout-out to art/music-pranksters The KLF, and a key quote from Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's The Little Prince. Yes, The Little Prince!) No one familiar with the style would take any word of it more seriously than a Stephen Colbert monologue. (When Colbert in character says something 'offensive', is it really 'offensive'?)

• Even so, I've watched it twice and can't find any implication that all developers are male. The lead voice in the song is male (and speaks the 'penis' line about himself) but the chorus auto-tuned voice is vaguely feminine and the dancers seem to represent 'developers' and are (mostly?) women.

• It's in a nightclub/danceclub, kicking off the conference party. Almost certainly alcohol was being served. Topics wander a bit from the button-downed professional voice at such events... in fact that's the very reason to have such events. Crude jokes about body parts aren't for everyone, but they are likely to come up in nightclubs and in spoofy music lyrics. If they're not specifically denigrating anyone they're harmless and non-exclusionary.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#72

Post by chris_wot »

jsprinkles wrote: post #57
Bodil wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify: That atrocity wasn't organised by the conference, they'd just agreed to give Microsoft (their biggest sponsor) the stage for a bit to do their big Azure announcement. There's certainly a lesson for conference organisers in there about how much you let your sponsors get involved in the conference, but what happened on stage was still all Microsoft's fault. Also just to clarify: As a woman who was actu…

Thank you for speaking up. Just as it's crucial that women not be silent when being excluded from tech, it's just as (if not more) imperative we hear that you're not feeling discriminated against. Especially when there is a rallying cry from men saying that you should be, or that we should hold Microsoft responsible for this great sexist faux pas. This community is overcorrecting in a bad way and starting to identify…

I hate that the definition of the word "sexist" is starting to evolve to mean "offensive"

Sexism is always offensive.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#73

Post by nailer »

chris_wot wrote: post #72
jsprinkles wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for speaking up. Just as it's crucial that women not be silent when being excluded from tech, it's just as (if not more) imperative we hear that you're not feeling discriminated against. Especially when there is a rallying cry from men saying that you should be, or that we should hold Microsoft responsible for this great sexist faux pas. This community is overcorrecting in a bad way and starting to identify…

I hate that the definition of the word "sexist" is starting to evolve to mean "offensive" Sexism is always offensive.

Yes, but not all offensiveness is sexism. This, for example, offends me as a software developer, and as someone who appreciates the effort the real guys developing Azure are putting in to supporting node. I, however, do not get the sense of being discriminated against based upon my gender. All the women I know who've seen this video think it's incredibly lame, but not particularly sexist.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#74

Post by nailer »

petercooper wrote: post #35
beaker wrote: post #17

Probably will get downvoted for this, but I didn't really think this was as vile as apparently everybody else does. Sure it's a bit cheesy and stupid, but the dancers seem to be wearing shorts and a full shirt (essentially standard dance attire) and not doing anything particularly suggestive. As to the lyrics, again stupid attempts at humor but not any worse than what you might see on an evening TV sitcom. Maybe I am…

That's forgetting context. On a sitcom, sure. What if it were at a funeral or as part of a job interview? It's similarly inappropriate at a programmers' conference where we should be avoiding activities and messages that reinforce male privilege. Don't believe me, believe women who have responded about it, e.g. https://twitter.com/serendipitousP/status/211470656242589698

The Twitter poster you mentioned says the main issue is that Microsoft assumed all developers are men. Which they didn't.

She also says the shorts are skimpy. Watch the video and see if you agree.

Finally people who tell me about my life based upon my gender with terms like 'male privilege' are themselves being sexist and rude.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#75

Post by Bodil »

gojomo wrote: post #71

Those taking offense are on too much of a hair-trigger. Take it in context: • This is in Norway, a very gender-egalitarian place (but also more open to sexual topics). They have the confidence to understand – and shrug off – things that are meant as goofy jokes, even if, when forwarded to a different context for the specific purpose of triggering a reaction, some can then find offense. • The music is definitely in th…

My initial reaction when hearing the soundtrack (I was a conference attendee) was to walk over to the stage to see if that was really Scooter playing. The lyrics just didn't seem nearly as offensive as most people apparently find them in light of this clearly being either the actual Scooter or someone copying them - I'm assuming the latter, because the lyrics seem a bit too juvenile even for Scooter, but knowing the band and their typical over-the-top raver campiness certainly mitigated the offensiveness of the incident. It was still fantastically embarrasing to watch, but I didn't feel especially offended as a woman at a tech conference.

The stage, btw, was in the middle of the conference venue, and this performance kicked off the conference party, just after the talks had finished for the day. The atmosphere in the room as it was happening was mostly one of embarrassed disbelief that Microsoft's PR department had apparently stereotyped the lot of us as tasteless brogrammers - with the exception of a few already drunk brogrammers clearly enjoying themselves in front of the stage.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#76

Post by overgryphon »

petercooper wrote: post #36

I wonder if those playing the "it's cheesy but c'mon, it's not offensive" line have missed the 20+ discussions about sexism and how to foster a healthy environment for women in tech on HN over the last year. The assumption that developers are men is enough here, and speakers at the conference mentioned in the song have expressed surprise and distaste at their inclusion. For example, they say "Lea Verou will make your…

There is a problem with sexism in the software development community that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. The Lea Verou line was incredibly creepy and inappropriate, and some of the other lyrics were also ill considered.

But the dancing itself, or the idea of women(? I think there may have been some men, couldn't tell) dancers at a development conference does not make me feel objectified. The dancers were not dressed inappropriately (long sleeves and shorts? I could probably wear that at work let alone a nightclub), and the dancing was not suggestive (especially in contrast to normal club dancing). I thought the dancing was fine.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#77

Post by overgryphon »

RommeDeSerieux wrote: post #38
technoslut wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't downvote and I probably would have a laugh with my kid sister at how inept MS is. However I do have concerns for young girls who are interested in programming and technology and believe this is how women are perceived in this field. This is especially true of those who don't have a sound parental foundation or looking to define themselves.

I think female peer pressure and the fear of ostracization for getting outed as a geek is a much bigger deterrent to women entering the IT field than some silly jokes that a mature adult sure can deal with.

Does anyone else think it odd that being a software developer automatically means you're a "geek"? I never thought of myself that way, still don't, and am surprised that a career choice automatically confers such an odd label. It makes no sense.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#78

Post by overgryphon »

jonpacker wrote: post #11
PostOnce wrote: post #10

So, this is the second story in about a month about crazy sexist stuff going on at industry events in Scandinavia. The Dell thing I thought was beyond the pale; but this seems to be in good fun. What's up with Scandinavia?

This was Microsoft, not Scandinavia. Noone was impressed by what they did. Apart from this, it was a great conference.

It was most likely a scandinavian subsidiary of Microsoft.

Re: Windows Azure Dance Routine

#79

Post by chris_wot »

nailer wrote: post #73
chris_wot wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate that the definition of the word "sexist" is starting to evolve to mean "offensive" Sexism is always offensive.

Yes, but not all offensiveness is sexism. This, for example, offends me as a software developer, and as someone who appreciates the effort the real guys developing Azure are putting in to supporting node. I, however, do not get the sense of being discriminated against based upon my gender. All the women I know who've seen this video think it's incredibly lame, but not particularly sexist.

I do agree :-) but IMO, the video was sexist. The point being made by jsprinkles is that all forms of offensiveness appear to being called "sexist" - he said "I hate that the definition of the word 'sexist' is starting to evolve to mean 'offensive'." which is what I'm responding to!
Post reply on HN