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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

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Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#71

Post by dansult »

elmomle wrote: post #41
snakeyjake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you think it's because of whatever brain damage they may have encountered, or because they could not find meaning in their civilian lives? I have no idea. Strangely the most common thread seems to be the ones who off themselves went back home after getting out. Almost everyone I know who got out and stayed away from home is doing ok. Almost everyone I know who got out and went back home is a wreck. Some had TBI e…

This makes a lot of sense. People are fundamentally changed by their experiences in combat zones. I'd imagine that going somewhere new afterwards allows you to be whoever you now are on your own terms, whereas going home means continually experiencing the pain of no longer fitting in to the life and loving relationship that you'd had before, with no relief in sight.

Changed maybe but not a whole new person. And its not binary - my experiences will different to yours even if we were in the exact same situations. After two tours I am not so different that I cannot interface with friends or family as I did before. I think the misconception of this statement does more harm then good and shows a rather negative interpretation of combat veterans.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#72

Post by Der_Einzige »

ohialehua wrote: post #34

I didn’t read the article. I mainly come here for the commentary and the backdoor links. But! Hormone replacement therapy is a game changer for a lot of men who have CTE. I’m a clinical social worker. I’ve worked in emergency medicine, correctional medicine, and now outpatient psychotherapy. I used to think HRT was for ego lifters and old ladies. But I have seen first hand the value of HRT for CTE patients. I’ve seen…

I'd like to know what about HRT causes a Lowe's floor worker to turn into a "midlevel executive" within "months"!

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#73

Post by djmips »

User23 wrote: post #48
jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

The difference between small arms and artillery is absolutely enormous. Handguns and rifles make loud popping noises. Exploding artillery shells are concussive bombs that produce brain rattling blasts.

Navy Seals aren't firing artillery. The article says the Seals brains were damaged by their own weapons which I assume to be rifles but maybe I'm wrong.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#74

Post by djmips »

mlindner wrote: post #58
jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

Guns don't make shockwaves that damage your brain. Damage your hearing without ear protection, sure, but they're not sending shockwaves through your skull.

And how do you know that?

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#75

Post by cush »

worik wrote: post #65
tomComb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this isn’t about stress related disorders.

> But this isn’t about stress related disorders. No? > came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis

I think they meant that the stress was caused by the TBIs from the mortar shockwaves, not by what they experienced otherwise

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#76

Post by zaptrem »

jrflowers wrote: post #68
p51-remorse wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever get the chance, go shoot some small caliber weapons. I think everyone should at some point to have a baseline in their head for what guns are. Plus, I think it’d be good for people to know you can become really hard to hit by all but the best shooters by… walking away slowly in a zigzag. Near impossible if you run. And then if you have a chance to be around some small artillery, do that too. It’s hard to…

“Can you sustain brain damage by being exposed to a smaller amount of concussive force?” “Great question, did you know if you zig and zag you become impervious to bullet :)”

I interpreted it as “there’s such a big difference between artillery and a handgun you clearly have never been around an actual gun being fired before”

Still snarky, but there is a point.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#77

Post by serf »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #54
jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

I used to shoot competitively. We always wore ear protection. Even without it though, I would imagine there's a huge difference between an artillery shell and a .45 round.

although I agree that there are worlds of difference between small arms and artillery, I would like to point out that ear protection.. protects your ears.

there is no good way to protect from concussive blasts aside from avoidance and shelter.

fwiw most DoD studies have found that concussive blasts that seem to be damaging to personnel start at around the AT4/Carl Gustaf range of large shoulder-fired almost-artillery -- understandably since they're large and mostly open-air combustion driven.[0]

[0]: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/05/01/...

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#78

Post by newsclues »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #72
ohialehua wrote: post #34

I didn’t read the article. I mainly come here for the commentary and the backdoor links. But! Hormone replacement therapy is a game changer for a lot of men who have CTE. I’m a clinical social worker. I’ve worked in emergency medicine, correctional medicine, and now outpatient psychotherapy. I used to think HRT was for ego lifters and old ladies. But I have seen first hand the value of HRT for CTE patients. I’ve seen…

I'd like to know what about HRT causes a Lowe's floor worker to turn into a "midlevel executive" within "months"!

It’s more like a mid level capable person was working at lowes until they got their hormones in balance to function optimally which resolved their depression or other symptoms

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#79

Post by BooneJS »

jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

It’s not just the orders of magnitude difference in number of rounds fired; it’s the size and power of the rounds. SEALs don’t shoot soda cans with .22 rifles.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#80

Post by serf »

djmips wrote: post #73
User23 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between small arms and artillery is absolutely enormous. Handguns and rifles make loud popping noises. Exploding artillery shells are concussive bombs that produce brain rattling blasts.

Navy Seals aren't firing artillery. The article says the Seals brains were damaged by their own weapons which I assume to be rifles but maybe I'm wrong.

they're talking about blasts from open-air combustion shoulder mounted anti-tank weapons.. very nearly artillery, and very loud.[0] . The article linked is the one mentioned in the parent article.

one of the major problems with such weapons is that although the support crew can shield themselves, often the firing soldier cannot due to operation of the weapon.

[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/26/us/military-brain-injury-...

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