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Monitoring marine litter from space

esa.int

71–80 of 91 posts

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#71
post #24

One thing I find interesting is how much more traction the problem of litter in the ocean has gained, compared to litter everywhere else, or any number of the other problems we have. I wonder why this is. Perhaps people can still see the ocean as a wilderness, where litter doesn't belong, whereas we are very used to seeing highways etc lined with rubbish?

Ocean trash has interests groups supporting it. Plenty of groups taking money to deal with it (or not) and part of that is to advertise the issue to ensure more money keeps coming into this industry. There is are no large international organizations or government efforts going out there to remove all the trash outside the more commercial or industrial parts of town, no ones buying ads about it, so its not in the public awareness as much. It also doesn't help that over time people grow blind to it. Heres an experiment you can run: find some litter on the sidewalk and see how many minutes or months go by before someone bends over and picks it up who isn't paid to do so. Chances are it will be in the months to never category, unless the person picking it up owns the land under that trash.

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#72

Waste is a huge problem, clearly human made, clearly responsibility to address in every current generation. Cost of products sold must include recycling and waste management costs. Otherwise, the manufactures will keep making devices/items with built-in-obsolescence to make it 'fashionable' for consumers to replace them at the first opportunity.

They need to work out a way for the costs to actually go towards targeted local cleanup operations which is no easy feat considering you need to extract them from all of society that produces trash. You'd have to create probably a new government agency that staffs cities with sufficient trash pickup. It would probably be in the billions in labor considering trash is often just as prolific in a tiny town of 400 people as it is in the big cities.

What would be perhaps more realistic is regulating packaging and other materials such that they can degrade safely in place with the assumption they will be littered and not properly recycled.

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#73
post #70
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Sentinel-2 mission is doing that [0]: > Systematic global coverage of land surfaces from 56° S to 84° N, coastal waters, and all of the Mediterranean Sea The constellation is not complete yet though. Sentinel-2C is planned to launch in September [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel-2 [1] https://www.satnow.com/launch-mission-details/sentinel-2c

Additionally, the only sea covered in its entirety is the Mediterranean. Generally, constellations don't do captures over open ocean as researchers/customers tend to be much more interested in events on land; this makes it difficult to do long-term analyses of marine events as the data just simply isn't captured. Source: work in the industry

True, but coastlines are well covered. Assuming the pollution comes from the coast it should be fairly easy to determine what the hotspots are (see Po river on the map in the article).

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#74
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"portable, self-replicating 3D printer" you mean bacteria? I am sure someone is working on plastic eating bacteria but it might not be a great idea to have it loose in the world.

I'd prefer it had an off switch and an API entirely subservient to our needs, rather than DNA.

You can engineer systems that effectively have an off switch (sterilized progeny with short life or a certain environmental lethality condition e.g. dependent on you constantly supplying certain substance) as well as even an API (e.g. built in features that enable integration with other genetic techniques such as insertion sites for cloning).

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#75
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"At some point I wonder if its going to be viable to harvest ocean plastic" I hope not. You can harvest landfills much cheaper today. If that becomes more expensive than taking plastic from the ocean, then the oceans would be really full of plastic.

The ocean is a major source of energy which could be used to power the thing. And I'd prioritize ocean cleanup over landfill, first of all. I mean, maybe we use the ocean to construct the fleet, and then when its nice and clean, send the fleet to land ..

Landfill is also a source of energy. Some cities have built power plants that are fueled by landfill emissions or through incineration of excess materials.

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#76
post #46

Kind of sad to imagine the satellites doing this are also surrounded by orbiting trash in space

How much space trash is there in total from less than a hundred years of space travel? How large is the surface of the earth? Would you really consider yourself "surrounded" by trash if there was one piece of trash a mile away from you? Your intuitions about this space trash problem are way, way off.

> Your intuitions about this space trash problem are way, way off

I'm not sure that's true, for example (with many more available)

"Analysis: Why trash in space is a major problem with no clear fix"

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/analysis-why-trash-in-s...

Also, I'd say "intuition" is a mischaracterization of the source of my sentiment. I've been passively hearing about this issue for years.

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#77

What’s the use of tracking waste if no efforts will be done to stop its production? Cleanups are nice and all but you gotta stop the bleeding where it starts. Maybe I’m being too cynical?

No, you are right. A lot of effort is being poured into monitoring and advocacy because that is the only place those interested in tackling these problems have to go. If there was an appetite for reform or mitigation, the folks doing high tech problem solving would be put to work in more meaningful ways. Worldwide though there is little interest in or support for changing our lifestyles, industrial systems, or resour…

It is not a technology issue. It is a political, infrastructural and educational issue. Almost all plastic pollution comes fram a handful of countries which do not care about proper garbage collection and recycling.

The west, or for that matter even most third world countries do not cause much plastic pollution at all.

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US produces plenty of plastic waste on its own, but it ends up in landfills because of modern garbage collection and street sweeping infrastructure. Before the development of landfills and garbage trucks, trash was a much bigger problem in the developed world - plastics just weren’t very common yet. Most developing countries don’t have that infrastructure so plastic pollution is everywhere, regardless of how much…

It's not "regardless" at all though. Knowing they don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with existing waste, it's easy to predict what happens when we outsource production there. However much uncontrolled waste they would generate, we are choosing to add to it.

Most of the waste likely comes from their native consumption, not their production.

Re: Monitoring marine litter from space

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US produces plenty of plastic waste on its own, but it ends up in landfills because of modern garbage collection and street sweeping infrastructure. Before the development of landfills and garbage trucks, trash was a much bigger problem in the developed world - plastics just weren’t very common yet. Most developing countries don’t have that infrastructure so plastic pollution is everywhere, regardless of how much…

It's not "regardless" at all though. Knowing they don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with existing waste, it's easy to predict what happens when we outsource production there. However much uncontrolled waste they would generate, we are choosing to add to it.

https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics

More than a third comes from The Philippines, India 13%, China 7%.

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