Earlier quoted context omitted.
> simply invest 15 years into developing your own chips instead of buying Nvidia GPUs https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-and-Imagination-strike-G... Following the loss of Apple, easily its biggest client, Imagination was bought out by a Chinese-based investment group. Apple subsequently released its first in-house designed mobile GPU as part of the A11 Bionic SoC that powered the iPhone X.. The new “multi-year licen…
That probably has nothing to do with the Neural Engine though.
Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
71–80 of 393 posts
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#72Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...
Thanks for the link. > As best I can tell, Apple does not have explicit plans to announce when your data is going off-device for to Private Compute. You won't opt into this, you won't necessarily even be told it's happening. It will just happen. Magically. Presumably it will be possible to opt out of AI features entirely, i.e. both on-device and off-device? Why would a device vendor not have an option for on-device A…
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
If user data disclosure is forced, would user data be limited to PCC nodes located within the same legal jurisdiction, e.g. EU, UK, US, China, etc?
PCC is as government-proof as the iPhone itself so jurisdiction may not matter much.
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the link. > As best I can tell, Apple does not have explicit plans to announce when your data is going off-device for to Private Compute. You won't opt into this, you won't necessarily even be told it's happening. It will just happen. Magically. Presumably it will be possible to opt out of AI features entirely, i.e. both on-device and off-device? Why would a device vendor not have an option for on-device A…
If you have no threat model and want to opt out of random features just because... you probably shouldn't use Apple products at all. Or Google or Microsoft.
With a hardened configuration, Apple has world-class device security. In time, remote PCC may prove as robust against real-world threats. Until then, it would be good to retain on-device security policy and choice for remote computation.
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#75What I'm most curious about here is if a state actor comes to Apple with a subpoena and compels them to release information on an individual, what would Apple be able to release? ... I suppose this is ultimately a question that will be tested sooner or later in the US.
One option is to release a malicious software update, sign it, publish the signature on the public chain, and then simply not release the binaries until after whatever associated gag orders there are (if any) expire. Apple gave themselves a 90 day timeline for this before they'd even be in violation of their promises.
Another option is to use the cryptographic keys used to make the hardware that attests to the software running on it, to simply falsely attest to what software is running. Unless Apple's somehow moved those keys outside of the courts jurisdiction (which means outside of Apple's control in the case of most courts) that should be within the courts power. If they can still create new hardware, it seems likely whoever is making that hardware must still have access to the keys...
Both of these attacks are outside the "threat model" proposed, because they are broad compromises against the entire PCC infrastructure. The fact that they are possible and within the legal systems power... well... why are we advertising this as secure again?
The main value of this whole architecture in my mind isn't actually security though, it's that it's Apple implicitly making the promise that they won't under any circumstance use the data, or let anyone else use the data, for business purposes (not even for running the service itself).
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#76Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...
You build the machine god all day and somehow find in yourself respect for what Jack let Twitter become?
If you dream of Napoleon, an elephant tooting a horn is a signal to sell.
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#77I was sceptical of the announcement, but this actually sounds really well thought out. One key part though will be the remote attestation that the servers are actually running what they say they're running. Without any access to the servers, how do we do that? Am I correctly expecting that that part remains a "trust me bro" situation?
>While we’re publishing the binary images of every production PCC build, to further aid research we will periodically also publish a subset of the security-critical PCC source code.
I expect that they'll publish the attestation source code.
But, basically what will happen is the Verifier will request a certain memory region to be attested, then that region will be hashed and the digest will be sent back to the Verifier. If the memory is different from what is expected, the hash digest will NOT match.
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#78Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#79Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#80Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...
False; works fine for me logged out or incognito..