Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 158 posts

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#71

Post by r00fus »

rconti wrote: post #57

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it…

These days with even off-peak being 40-80c / kWh the best way to charge EVs (which are mostly owned by homeowners) seems to be to bypass the grid and charge using rooftop solar during the middle of the day (or time shifted using battery storage).

Obv. not possible for renters or condo owners or for people who can install solar.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#72

Post by troad »

JasserInicide wrote: post #56
alberth wrote: post #41

Not just power grid … US infrastructure overall is in need of a “jolt” (updating). Bridges, highways, power grid and more are all aging and in need of massive updating / refresh.

I have 0 faith in our governments to carry out any long-term projects that aren't military-related. Like wasn't a trillion dollar infrastructure bill passed a couple years ago? Where has all that money gone?

The trick is to claim all projects are military related.

"Yes, Senator, upgrading the covered wooden bridge to Sleepy Hollow is essential. It cannot presently bear the weight of a column of M1 Abrams tanks, such as would be required to defend the nation from invasion. Let it not be said you are weak on defence, Senator!" /s

I mean, the federal government funded the Interstate Highway System largely to be able to get troops from one end of the country to the other, now someone just needs to make a similar case for bridges and high-speed rail.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#73

Post by smeej »

rconti wrote: post #57

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it…

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand.

I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from what she told me is that one of its biggest hurdles is that it can't adjust up and down for demand very well. If you want to meet peak demand, you end up massively overproducing the rest of the time. If you have the batteries available, by all means, store it, but if you don't, bitcoin mining rigs can very easily be turned on and off in whatever numbers you need to balance out the demand, or at least smooth it out enough that the nuclear production can handle the remaining fluctuation.

It's a different problem, trying to match energy production that would prefer to be constant with demand that fluctuates, as opposed to trying to match fluctuating production with fluctuating demand, but I think of it almost like a "battery" that stores the "energy" as money rather than directly. Like, when the demand drops, earn whatever bitcoin you can with the miners so you can keep it cost effective to run nuclear and you're not having to turn to supplemental, higher cost, less clean energy sources in times of peak demand.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#74

Post by esalman »

smeej wrote: post #73
rconti wrote: post #57

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it…

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

Surely there are more useful avenues for harnessing excess energy than mining Bitcoins?

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#75

Post by ihsw »

esalman wrote: post #74
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

Surely there are more useful avenues for harnessing excess energy than mining Bitcoins?

[dead]

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#76

Post by esalman »

r00fus wrote: post #71
rconti wrote: post #57

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it…

These days with even off-peak being 40-80c / kWh the best way to charge EVs (which are mostly owned by homeowners) seems to be to bypass the grid and charge using rooftop solar during the middle of the day (or time shifted using battery storage). Obv. not possible for renters or condo owners or for people who can install solar.

> Obv. not possible for renters or condo owners or for people who can install solar.

That can be as much as 67% or more of the households in large Metro areas. This is really why I think EV adoption is a pipe dream. It is probably a boon for the grid as well.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#77

Post by esalman »

PontifexMinimus wrote: post #70
rconti wrote: post #57

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it…

52 W is not a particularly high peak load.

52 giga watts.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#78

Post by ksec »

pyrale wrote: post #4

These ‘grid enhancing technologies’ look like cheap fixes that can only buy some time before real work is needed. Sure, with better monitoring and some overload management systems you may work closer to some limits, but that’s not a solution for long-term usage increases. Where I work, they are used a lot to adjust for renewables power surges, not to increase transit. The bit about automaticaly shifting power to othe…

If one day there is a battery for every house or even flat. That is double the capacity of Tesla power wall at half the size while lasting twice as long. Do we still need to upgrade the grid infrastructure?

I assume With that many buffer in place the whole thing should be able to self balance relatively easily. But I wonder if that is also a false assumption.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#79

Post by XorNot »

esalman wrote: post #74
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

Surely there are more useful avenues for harnessing excess energy than mining Bitcoins?

I mean this is where pumped hydro would be pretty handy actually. Pumped hydro can't charge as fast as batteries, but can have enormous energy capacity.

You could almost certainly tune a pumped hydro installation to absorb the ramp of a reactor cycling up and down, but you'd lose the risk of running dry due to renewable unpredictability.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#80

Post by tedivm »

smeej wrote: post #73
rconti wrote: post #57

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it…

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

This just isn't true. The burden on nuclear is the extremely long construction time and massive cost overruns.
Post reply on HN