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EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#71

Post by theshrike79 »

blensor wrote: post #24
londons_explore wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most vocal person behind the right to repair movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npd_xDuNi9k Oh, and he runs a professional repair shop...

Saying Louis Rossmann is fighting for the right to repair while trying to keep individuals from repairing their own devices is like saying Linus Torvalds created Linux to keep people from getting the idea to build their own operating system. Rossmann is fighting the good fight and also often doing videos showing how a repair actually works. Most famously a video where he showed that a certain type of common Macbook s…

The stuff that Rossmann repairs are "simple" because he has the tools and expertise to do so. It's very much a "$1 for the screw and $999 to know where to put it" type of situation.

Does everyone realistically expect Apple to have a Rossmann-level repair person[0] in every one of their 528 Apple Stores to do these "simple fixes" with professional gear.

Or is it actually more economical for them to build the equipment for swapping whole boards so simply that anyone with 30 minutes of training can do it. (This is the gear they rent to you when you want to self-repair btw)

[0] 3+ more likely so that they can have vacations and sick days too

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#72

Post by ivanhoe »

pembrook wrote: post #57
blensor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying Louis Rossmann is fighting for the right to repair while trying to keep individuals from repairing their own devices is like saying Linus Torvalds created Linux to keep people from getting the idea to build their own operating system. Rossmann is fighting the good fight and also often doing videos showing how a repair actually works. Most famously a video where he showed that a certain type of common Macbook s…

I think the internet has broken people’s brains. Yes, he’s a really nice guy and likable and I enjoy his videos too. But you cannot ignore the fact that he’s highly financially incentivized to hold the positions he does, given he both owns a repair shop and probably makes even more money talking about repairing things on YouTube.

> I think the internet has broken people’s brains.

I agree, but what I see as a result is this paranoia that there's a conspiracy and something sinister in absolutely everything.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#73

Post by g15jv2dp »

lnsru wrote: post #21

It’s another nail in the coffin of consumer hardware startups. In addition to CE and waste issues now comes a requirement for repairability. Only the big guys with departments of clerks can launch a product nowadays.

I sincerely hope that hardware startup that are intent on producing e-waste that cannot be repaired fail thanks to this directive.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#74

Post by theshrike79 »

hollow-moe wrote: post #3

Does this bill includes an obligation for manufacturers to sell spare parts at a reasonable price ? Or has clauses against malicious compliance like apple did with the infamous military crates ?

The "Military Crates" (100% off the shelf Pelican cases used to transport fragile equipment across the world) contain very specific gear that's simple enough for anyone to use as long as they follow the instructions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYzVaC6HSQ

It's not like you can reliably tell someone to "just use your hair dryer to loosen the adhesive" and not expect huge amounts of breakage.

The devices in the kit apply exactly the correct amount of heat and pressure and are actually the same setup they use themselves.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#75

Post by CogitoCogito »

theshrike79 wrote: post #74
hollow-moe wrote: post #3

Does this bill includes an obligation for manufacturers to sell spare parts at a reasonable price ? Or has clauses against malicious compliance like apple did with the infamous military crates ?

The "Military Crates" (100% off the shelf Pelican cases used to transport fragile equipment across the world) contain very specific gear that's simple enough for anyone to use as long as they follow the instructions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYzVaC6HSQ It's not like you can reliably tell someone to "just use your hair dryer to loosen the adhesive" and not expect huge amounts of breakage. The devices in the ki…

Apple should just sell those crates to anyone for a reasonable markup. Then those people can provide repair services to others independent of any oversight of Apple.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#76

Post by theodric »

pembrook wrote: post #70
Etheryte wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies like to pretend like that's one possible outcome, but realistically that's never gonna happen. Can you imagine what a field day Samsung would have if Apple suddenly announced they're not gonna sell phones to Germany or w/e anymore?

Not Germany, France, etc. But I absolutely can imagine them not re-working their entire product line for any of the smaller countries (baltics, balkans, Nordics, Eastern Europe, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc). And for hardware startups? Forget about it. It’s already a nightmare to sell physical products throughout Europe given the intra-country shipping costs, multi-lingual requirements, and patchwork of loc…

And that isn't just some remote possibility, it's a likely outcome, because it's already a crapshoot with hardware/service availability across Europe. It was the case that for many years - might still be? - you couldn't buy Pixel phones in the Netherlands, which is how I ended up with a secondhand Verizon unit with a locked bootloader. In Switzerland, Digitec/Galaxus grey-markets many products which are otherwise not offered there. Last I checked, you still can't buy a Steam Deck in Switzerland. And none of that is because of additional pressure from onerous laws.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#77

Post by blensor »

theshrike79 wrote: post #71
blensor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying Louis Rossmann is fighting for the right to repair while trying to keep individuals from repairing their own devices is like saying Linus Torvalds created Linux to keep people from getting the idea to build their own operating system. Rossmann is fighting the good fight and also often doing videos showing how a repair actually works. Most famously a video where he showed that a certain type of common Macbook s…

The stuff that Rossmann repairs are "simple" because he has the tools and expertise to do so. It's very much a "$1 for the screw and $999 to know where to put it" type of situation. Does everyone realistically expect Apple to have a Rossmann-level repair person[0] in every one of their 528 Apple Stores to do these "simple fixes" with professional gear. Or is it actually more economical for them to build the equipment…

I didn't argue that to shame on Apple. I can understand why that is done ( especially with warranty extensions )

What I am arguing is that there may be a much cheaper ("easier" for the person who knows what to do) way to repair it if you don't care about the warranty but that path can currently be blocked by the manufacturer.

For example: We had a deadline for submitting our final game build last year and my laptop where I had everything setup died a day before the deadline. I went to a local electronics shop, bought a different laptop, removed the SSD from the broken one put it in the new one and was backup and running 30 minutes after returning home.

I would not have cared about warranty there, only about the speed of getting back up and running to meet the deadline.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#79

Post by switch007 »

sunaookami wrote: post #48

That's not "right to repair". Right to repair is: - I can repair it myself - with free access to schematics - with access to spare parts - without coupling between hardware and software The EU completely misunderstood what right to repair is and is now implementing something so that they can say that they have "right to repair". This will damage the RTR movement even further. I wonder who lobbied for this.

Exactly. This looks like the EU appeasing their paymasters while fooling their constituents with PR.

It seems to be a very effective strategy to coin a phrase, make people believe it's one thing, even gaslight them over their concerns, then turn it in to another in the implementation

Just like Affordable Housing.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#80

Post by Roark66 »

dojitza1 wrote: post #67
jonatron wrote: post #4

Why is there gatekeeping of "professional" repairers and "repair services"? Why can't I as a consumer view a service manual and buy a part? If a washing machine costs £220, and a professional repair man costs £70 per hour, nobody will repair out of warranty.

I believe this is done partially to dissuade bad actors from gaining easy unverifiable access to hardware and software thus rendering anti theft technology ineffective. If you mandate all repairs to be done using a verifiable (and paid for) repair key which you supply to vetted people, it becomes that much harder to replace the anti theft module as a common thief. Even large scale operations would then be harder to r…

This is very naive view. Anyone that handles stolen goods will have a fence "repairman" (just like they have car breakdown places - in EU only certified establishments can breakdown cars). All it will accomplish is make repair harder not easier while at the same time showing "hey look, we have right to repair".

This is straight out of Lenin's book. How do you do whatever the f** you want when in power? You first redefine language. Then you can do anything. The EU has been at it for quite a while. First we've lost the UK because of this stupid bullshit. Now, the majority of the young population in the western countries like Belgium/Netherlands etc is already majority against the EU. It's only a matter of time it will fall apart. Russian/Middle Eastern corruption and pure homegrown stupidity. This is what is killing the EU right now.

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