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Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

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Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#71

Post by ASalazarMX »

ghostcluster wrote: post #7
pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

> This is a result of Tesla’s strategy to rely upon Tesla Vision to replace all sensors – which they’ve successfully used most recently to replace the ultrasonic parking sensors (USS) on their vehicles. Tesla believes that vision is the solution to achieving all self-driving capabilities, and this includes the elimination of extraneous sensors such as USS and radar. Why are they so hell-bent on using nothing but vide…

It feels to me like another one of Elon's stubborn whims. Sometimes these result in great innovations, like Tesla's giant car part 'gigacasting'. Other times, they result in deciding to rename Twitter "X" and forcing a team of engineers to spend over a year combing meticulously through the codebase to remove all references to "twitter.com"

This reminds me of Steve Jobs and his absolute refusal to let flash run on the iPhone. I think we're better now for that, but we had a few rough years for that.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#72

Post by vel0city »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

TBH, I hate auto wipers and have always believed them to be a tech solution looking for a problem. Never once have I been in rainy weather and thought "gee, what should I do?". I currently have a car with auto wipers (I'm not sure but I think they use the "standard" infrared sensor to detect rain) and I find them worse than manual, intermittent wipers in every way. I think the biggest problem is that the wipers tend…

So with auto wipers, sometimes you need to manually turn on the wipers.

With manual wipers, you always need to manually turn on the wipers.

I don't get how the auto wipers are worse. It's not like having auto wipers means you no longer have manual wipers. Other than maybe a Tesla where they took away the stalks, but just about every car I've had with auto wipers still had regular stalks with pretty regular wiper controls. Just one speed is also auto, so you can leave it there instead of off.

And in the end I'll leave it on auto instead of off, and the majority of the time these days I don't even have to think about it. These days, they seem to mostly just work for most of the precipitation I experience. Not always, but most of the time.

The first car I had with auto wipers was kind of like your experience. It had to really be coming down to activate. That was a 2012 model year. My 2017 model year car is a good bit better in that kind of misty environment. My 2021 car, I pretty much never touch the wipers even if it's just a light mist. The tech has seemingly been a lot better over the years.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#73

Post by jwmcq »

binkHN wrote: post #40
hanief wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they falsely believe human only needs one sense to navigate: sight. But we actually use our hearing, smell, and touch too. So, multiple type sensors is actually better than only one.

I imagine smell and touch are less valuable when driving a vehicle.

Unless that smell is oil. Or gasoline. Or burning rubber. Or petrichor. Or just plain old smoke.

Or the touch is the feeling of road surface changing, or the steering wheel getting harder to turn / having no effect at all, or the rush of air if a door flies open...

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#74

Post by vel0city »

ranger207 wrote: post #55
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

TBH, I hate auto wipers and have always believed them to be a tech solution looking for a problem. Never once have I been in rainy weather and thought "gee, what should I do?". I currently have a car with auto wipers (I'm not sure but I think they use the "standard" infrared sensor to detect rain) and I find them worse than manual, intermittent wipers in every way. I think the biggest problem is that the wipers tend…

Yeah I don't get the point of autowipers. My car is too old to have them, and whenvever I drive someone else's car I just have to pray that there's a way to bypass the automation because there's about a 50% chance whatever car I'm driving the wipers just won't work. It's an interesting case of UI/UX because adding the autowipers often makes things more complicated than not because instead of manipulating the wipers d…

In almost every car with auto wipers I've driven it's just been another wiper selection. Off, auto, intermittent, low, high.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#76

Post by rgmerk »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

> This is a result of Tesla’s strategy to rely upon Tesla Vision to replace all sensors – which they’ve successfully used most recently to replace the ultrasonic parking sensors (USS) on their vehicles. Tesla believes that vision is the solution to achieving all self-driving capabilities, and this includes the elimination of extraneous sensors such as USS and radar. Why are they so hell-bent on using nothing but vide…

Because they think they can build a cheaper car that way.

Same reason they haven’t even offered an instrument display in front of the driver as an option, and replaced the indicator stalks with buttons (which from reports works acceptably well in California, not so much in, say, the UK).

Underlying it all is Tesla’s belief that the driver is a legacy feature that is going away Real Soon Now. Frankly, it seems like they’re 90% of the way there (with all that implies about how long it will take to get the rest of the way).

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#77

Post by what-the-grump »

yareal wrote: post #13

Autowiper sensors are some of the simplest, well understood technology around. You place an infrared led at a low angle to the windshield, you place an ir collector so the light from the LED hits it. (Remember that at shallow angles, light reflects off glass.) When water is on the sensor, the angle of refraction and reflection change, and the ir collector suddenly sees much less light. Two components, plus a microcon…

Because petulant manchild thinks he is best car engineer on the planet. Its why FSD in its current state is such trash, its why a lot of the car is leaps and bounds better than most other cars, and basics that should have been accepted as learned lessons have to be relearned at the expense of the consumer and ridicule by the rest.

Autowipers do not work. Cannot work, will never work. My tesla can't see a full downed tree in my lane, gets spooked by dips in the road and pops collision alerts, how the hell would it see rain.

There are plenty of tasks that become impossible when using the wrong tools. It's like trying to move a lot of sand with a fork.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#78

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

vel0city wrote: post #72
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

TBH, I hate auto wipers and have always believed them to be a tech solution looking for a problem. Never once have I been in rainy weather and thought "gee, what should I do?". I currently have a car with auto wipers (I'm not sure but I think they use the "standard" infrared sensor to detect rain) and I find them worse than manual, intermittent wipers in every way. I think the biggest problem is that the wipers tend…

So with auto wipers, sometimes you need to manually turn on the wipers. With manual wipers, you always need to manually turn on the wipers. I don't get how the auto wipers are worse. It's not like having auto wipers means you no longer have manual wipers. Other than maybe a Tesla where they took away the stalks, but just about every car I've had with auto wipers still had regular stalks with pretty regular wiper cont…

Good point, I think the issue for me is probably more of a lack of the ability to set manual wipers on a continuously variable schedule than just with autowipers specifically. I have no option that's good for the "misty" rain I described beyond hitting the "wipe once" button on the stalk every ten seconds.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#79

Post by shiroiushi »

jbotdev wrote: post #31

I get it, he’s trying to do everything in software (with the existing cameras), since software is “cheap” and can do anything in theory. Unfortunately they keep showing how they’re in over their head with some of these features (like FSD). But it’s fine because their customers agree to keep beta testing while they figure things out on production cars.

>But it’s fine because their customers agree to keep beta testing while they figure things out on production cars.

This is the bottom line right here. It's the same with many other products too. It's not really wrong to run a business this way, because SO many customers apparently like it and continue to support these companies. Other examples are Microsoft and the ads it's baking into Windows, and Netflix and its price increases combined with feature degradation (like cracking down on password sharing in families).

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#80

Post by selcuka »

ra7 wrote: post #53
pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

> This is a result of Tesla’s strategy to rely upon Tesla Vision to replace all sensors – which they’ve successfully used most recently to replace the ultrasonic parking sensors (USS) on their vehicles. Tesla believes that vision is the solution to achieving all self-driving capabilities, and this includes the elimination of extraneous sensors such as USS and radar. Why are they so hell-bent on using nothing but vide…

Combination of cost savings and “first principles” thinking. They tried to save $5 per car by not including a rain sensor. It’s a few million dollars in savings at their scale. At the same time, they spend time and resources engineering a “smart” solution to auto wipers using cameras. And they continue to spend effort on that because it still doesn’t work. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Obviously it's not the $5, but the research that matters. We are beta-testing their vision based rain detection algorithm for them, for free (in fact we are paying $5 to test it).
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