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How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

fortune.com

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Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#71

Post by spiderice »

codexb wrote: post #55
jseliger wrote: post #3

I just left a version of this in another thread—I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time, crash rates plummet, and these kinds of articles come to resemble articles from 1910 about horse-related problems. Humans suck at driving: https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/16/maybe-cars-are-just-reall... Waymos avoid many…

Maybe if you're under 25 and have always lived in a dense city this seems like a valid take. Taxis aren't new, they have always existed. Just because they're driven by computers now isn't going to magically change all the reasons that people didn't use them before (hint: it wasn't because they were driven by humans). No one with kids wants to ride in taxis with kids all the time. Ditto for anyone with hobbies that re…

I have kids and don't like Taxis, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your take. The idea of a humanless Taxi showing up to my house sounds way more appealing to me.

I can take my time to get car seats in and kids buckled, without feeling the pressure to hurry from the human driver.

I don't have to feel like my kids misbehaving are going to annoy a human driver, or get me a bad review in Uber/Lyft.

I don't have to worry about tipping, or the driver taking a longer route to charge me more.

I don't have to worry about small-talk, or awkwardly sitting in silence when I normally would be talking with those I'm driving with.

Obviously this doesn't cover all use cases for a car (pretty sure you can't load a kayak onto a Waymo because you'd block sensors), but it seems WAY better to me as someone who doesn't like to deal with the people aspect of Taxis.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#72

Post by fragmede »

a0986373 wrote: post #51
clpm4j wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average, within SF (say, a 3-4 mile trip), is typically ~$20. Peak times on Friday or Saturday evenings can definitely exceed $35, but I've yet to have any ride go above $50.

Does it matter if you enter with multiple people? Does the charge go up (whereas Uber/Lyft grants you 3+ seats by default)?

Doesn't matter, and the total is 4 people.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#73

Post by huygens6363 »

nevertoolate wrote: post #66

They have a fairly big weakness. If someone takes over their control these taxis are basically weapons. You have to admit that the question is not if this is possible but how will it pan out.

I agree, but that’s an argument against cars in general.

Turns out cars are a bit too bulky and pricey to repurpose as shanks.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#74

Post by fragmede »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #60
brrwind wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my experience. I've rarely seen a comparably priced ride. They're usually at least 50% more expensive than Uber or Lyft.

Why is that? Waymo has lower labor costs right?

Not if you count the billions that have been sank into developing the product. Also, there's no incentive to undercut market rate for rides, that's just leaving money on the table. Collusion but also not.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#75

Post by nmca »

nevertoolate wrote: post #66

They have a fairly big weakness. If someone takes over their control these taxis are basically weapons. You have to admit that the question is not if this is possible but how will it pan out.

This is already true of many consumer vehicles and thus less exacerbated by Waymo than you imply

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#76

Post by codetrotter »

spiderice wrote: post #71
codexb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you're under 25 and have always lived in a dense city this seems like a valid take. Taxis aren't new, they have always existed. Just because they're driven by computers now isn't going to magically change all the reasons that people didn't use them before (hint: it wasn't because they were driven by humans). No one with kids wants to ride in taxis with kids all the time. Ditto for anyone with hobbies that re…

I have kids and don't like Taxis, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your take. The idea of a humanless Taxi showing up to my house sounds way more appealing to me. I can take my time to get car seats in and kids buckled, without feeling the pressure to hurry from the human driver. I don't have to feel like my kids misbehaving are going to annoy a human driver, or get me a bad review in Uber/Lyft. I don't have to…

> I don't have to worry about tipping

I can almost guarantee that if they don’t already, the robo-taxis will eventually start asking for tips.

This is already the case at self-checkout in some stores for example.

As long as the companies can get away with it, they will tack on any number of extra fees and charges even if those fees and charges really don’t make any sense.

Hell, even tipping people does not really make sense the way it works in some places. A person working for a company should receive enough pay from the company itself that they don’t have to actually rely on tips in order to make enough money to survive. Tips should be a nice extra that customers willingly add because of good service. Not a forced extra percentage that they have to pay on every transaction just so that the company can pay less to their employees.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#77

Post by fragmede »

int0x29 wrote: post #37
ok_dad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a human I can look at their face to see that they see me. How do I know a robot sees me? Do they have indications that say “I see you and won’t drive” like a driver looking at you in the face and waving?

With tinted windows and glare I already can't see like 75% of drivers. At least driverless cars reliably signal so I don't have to do pose estimation with the front wheels to cross the street. Also they aren't on their phones.

Streaming live video non-stop to the Internet, arguably Waymos are "on the phone" more than humans :p

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#78

Post by fragmede »

ein0p wrote: post #47
NullHypothesist wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to wait... https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/11/24069251/waymo-driverless...

Exactly. And there’s no dude there to prevent it.

A human driver's not going to stop a gang of hooligans from throwing a Molotov their way.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#79

Post by vincnetas »

As a proponent of good public transportation I'm a bit afraid that automated taxis will get big enough in USA that they will start influence city wide decisions on how to develop city transport network even in Europe when time comes for them to expand their business.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#80

Post by fragmede »

jseliger wrote: post #3

I just left a version of this in another thread—I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time, crash rates plummet, and these kinds of articles come to resemble articles from 1910 about horse-related problems. Humans suck at driving: https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/16/maybe-cars-are-just-reall... Waymos avoid many…

After two of my (women) friends were assaulted by Uber/Lyft drivers, a weird smell is the least of my fears. If I'm sending someone on a ride late a night, Waymo's lack of driver is a huge reason to prefer them over Uber/Lyft. But only if the destination is in a safe neighborhood. A human driver's going to be able to make a better assessment of if it's safe to let someone off somewhere, vs Waymos will randomly drop you off blocks away from your destination.

As far as humans suck at driving, it's not that they suck on average, but that the ones who do suck at it don't always have a sticker saying that they suck.

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