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Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

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Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#71

Fo any other professions have thse challenges? Our lack of basic professional certifications has just led to nonsense in every corner of the hiring and job seeking process.

There are professional certifications they are just useless. The same goes for university degrees. The field moves too fast for certification to have any value. Perhaps if you do something very “enterprise” it might be useful.

The uselessness of professional certifications isn't because things move too fast. The fundamentals don't really change.

The certifications are useless because they're paper mills, driven by the same incentives as grade inflation. People get upset if they pay for the certification and then fail the test -- and those are the certification mill's customers, so that can't be allowed or people would get some other certification. Or worse, some other vendor's certification. So they make something easy enough for the 10th percentile to pass, or publish a study guide that effectively gives you the answers to the test, and then it isn't serving as a useful filtering mechanism.

Meanwhile the strongest applicants rightfully see it as a waste of money because they can get in on their other qualifications or find a job through their networks, or use not having it as a reverse filter to eliminate excessively bureaucratic employers that use it as a prerequisite, causing anyone who requires it to be filtering out more of the best applicants than the worst ones.

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#72
post #65

A new problem I'm facing on the hiring end is an influx of imposters from Asia. Everything they claim is a lie, from their name, citizenship, location, picture, to their job history. They even set up fake company sites. And of course they use LLMs to help them pass the interview. I assume it's so they can bilk gullible companies and perhaps do some corporate espionage. I don't know. I haven't encountered anyone try t…

Last year I was reviewing about a dozen answers to the questions we were sending candidates to complete at home. In all cases those a*holes used ChatGPT to write answers and what did ChatGPT use? Original Python docs recombined with blog posts. I was able to verify this by copying passages from their answers and pasting them into Google. When I showed this to the hiring manager they had a serious conversation with the agency. It would have been hilarious if I did not know that some of the candidate were real people with good experience but too lazy to write simple code.

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#73

Serves them right. Employers have been using AI and algorithms to weed out resumes/applications for years. To the point that the only way to get seen by an actual human is the game the system.

The thing that especially infuriates me is recruiters in this article turning around and trying to throw LinkedIn under the bus. No one likes the nightmare dystopia of a platform that is LinkedIn. The only reason most people I know have LinkedIn accounts in the first place is because HR types have outsourced so much of their job to LinkedIn that it's viewed as professional suicide to not have a LinkedIn profile with…

What gets me is that they request a CV even though my whole work history is already on LI. My CV is just a reformatted LI profile. But then again, recruiters are mostly sociology, political science, or philosophy grads who chose an easy degree thinking they were clever and found themselves being used as a mop in the Victorian sweatshop that is the recruitment industry.

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#74
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm still getting spam from sketchy crypto orgs months after I put my email into a HN hiring thread once. Don't recommend.

Consider a "burner" email alias for such situations. Fastmail makes creating them easy enough.

Apple’s iCloud+ also includes “hide my email” which creates randomized addresses that forward to your main account.

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree that relying on a network and human referrals is the way to go but building an effective network is much harder than it used to be. Meetup groups and local conferences were a good source to make connections pre-pandemic but that has really withered in the last couple years. Past collaborators are also a great source but she is junior and doesn’t really have any she can leverage. My initial advice to…

My suggestion is to focus on a fewer number of companies, instead of sending resume in bulk. When you narrow your choices you can study well and notice bugs or issues that need to be addressed. Fix them, send the results to someone in the company, it will increase your chances substantially.

It's a sad day when the answer is "do unpaid labor for a chance to be noticed."

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#76
post #65

A new problem I'm facing on the hiring end is an influx of imposters from Asia. Everything they claim is a lie, from their name, citizenship, location, picture, to their job history. They even set up fake company sites. And of course they use LLMs to help them pass the interview. I assume it's so they can bilk gullible companies and perhaps do some corporate espionage. I don't know. I haven't encountered anyone try t…

Last year I was reviewing about a dozen answers to the questions we were sending candidates to complete at home. In all cases those a*holes used ChatGPT to write answers and what did ChatGPT use? Original Python docs recombined with blog posts. I was able to verify this by copying passages from their answers and pasting them into Google. When I showed this to the hiring manager they had a serious conversation with th…

You can't assign homework any more. I was never into them anyway.

One clumsy candidate accidentally revealed his cards by pasting the prompt he'd used in our chat window, like that paper whose introduction began "Certainly, here is a possible introduction to your topic." https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/1beaqya/obvious_chat...

Another was unable to explain why his code was structured the way it was. I asked a multipart question that required refactoring, knowing that these tools are not good at that, or enforcing a consistent style. His initial code was a self-contained class and the refactor introduced a function outside of the class that also should have been a method. I asked him why he did that and, of course, he froze.

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are professional certifications they are just useless. The same goes for university degrees. The field moves too fast for certification to have any value. Perhaps if you do something very “enterprise” it might be useful.

The uselessness of professional certifications isn't because things move too fast. The fundamentals don't really change. The certifications are useless because they're paper mills, driven by the same incentives as grade inflation. People get upset if they pay for the certification and then fail the test -- and those are the certification mill's customers, so that can't be allowed or people would get some other certif…

The fundamentals change all the time. When I learned to code everybody was high on Java, you had to know your design patterns, craft beautiful inheritance hierarchies and all kinds of other things that we now laugh at as being very silly. But people were dead serious about it!

This art is still young, we are still finding our feet and I don’t think certifications are beneficial until we do. What we need is more experimentation and free thinking not a general ossification.

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#78
post #7

> That came after LinkedIn began rolling out a new set of generative AI tools for recruiters to source candidates in October. With the sourcing tool, recruiters can search a phrase like “I want to hire engineers in Texas,” and profiles of people that may meet those criteria appear, as do other specific skills that may be related to the role. They can also send messages written with generative AI and set automatic fol…

Is there an alternative we can practically move to that will turn LinkedIn into an abandoned property like MySpace?

(Ideal would be a distributed approach with semantic Web and such. But I'd settle for a centralized site that wanted to be a lot better, and was capable of that.)

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#79

Fo any other professions have thse challenges? Our lack of basic professional certifications has just led to nonsense in every corner of the hiring and job seeking process.

The challenge for certifying in software engineering seems similar to the challenges you'd face in any creative, building oriented professions. That is you can't test for it with some sort of standard exam. You need to have the person build something and then have established masters of the field evaluate it. But that requires a professional structure we don't have.

Many other engineering disciplines have a PE exam, including mechanical engineering and electrical engineering. I'm not sure why you believe that software engineering is somehow more difficult to test in a rigorous manner than those fields.

In point of fact, computer science did at one point have an official equivalent PE exam, but it was bafflingly removed a few years ago though I'm not entirely clear on the reason.

This is exactly what happens when you don't gate keep enough - employers lose all trust in potential candidates core competencies, and thus we have the increasing arms race of 40 hour multi project 12 course interviews.

Re: Recruiters are going analog to fight the AI application overload

#80
post #65

A new problem I'm facing on the hiring end is an influx of imposters from Asia. Everything they claim is a lie, from their name, citizenship, location, picture, to their job history. They even set up fake company sites. And of course they use LLMs to help them pass the interview. I assume it's so they can bilk gullible companies and perhaps do some corporate espionage. I don't know. I haven't encountered anyone try t…

Last year I was reviewing about a dozen answers to the questions we were sending candidates to complete at home. In all cases those a*holes used ChatGPT to write answers and what did ChatGPT use? Original Python docs recombined with blog posts. I was able to verify this by copying passages from their answers and pasting them into Google. When I showed this to the hiring manager they had a serious conversation with th…

Did you tell them that AI was not allowed?
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