Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair • Hacker News Board

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#71

Post by piltdownman » Tue, May 07, 2024, 3:15 PM UTC

shiroiushi wrote: post #27

Reason077 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now days the toothbrushes use the "Oral-B" brand, so Braun is only really known (in international markets) for shavers.

No, the electric toothbrushes are called Braun in markets outside the US. I've only seen them labeled Oral-B in the US. Also, they're pretty lousy toothbrushes IMO. I recommend Panasonic ones instead.

In all English speaking European markets they're Oral-B.

https://www.currys.ie/appliances/health-and-beauty/electric-...

Not only that, but they're frequently the top position in the year-end 'best of' on both the legitimate consumer review sites and the more credible outlets

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-electric-too... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/recommended/tech/best-electric-t...

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#72

Post by piltdownman » Tue, May 07, 2024, 3:16 PM UTC

gnabgib wrote: post #38

Reason077 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No, the electric toothbrushes are called Braun in markets outside the US. I've only seen them labeled Oral-B in the US." I can assure you that now days they're Oral-B in most, if not all, markets globally. Certainly in the UK, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand they are no longer sold as "Braun", just "Oral-B". Here's the Oral-B store on amazon.de, for example: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/stores/Oral-BMarkenshop/pa…

Tricky to confirm (no need to follow links), but the first hits on Amazon UK[0], Amazon AU[1], Amazon US[2] are clearly labelled Braun in the images. Amazon Germany[3] and Amazon France[4] too. [0]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oral-B-Vitality-Toothbrush-Includin... [1]: https://www.amazon.com.au/Oral-B-SMART-Electric-Rechargeable... [2]: https://www.amazon.com/Oral-B-1000-Rechargeable-Electric-Too... [3]: https://www.am…

Don't use Amazon for reference, use something like Boots and you'll confirm it immediately.

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#73

Post by maxglute » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:27 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #64

maxglute wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Xiaomi's household products are also coming into that niche. IMO Xiaomi, more than Apple carries on Braun legacy. Relatively well designed, performant, and accessible (cheap) consumer goods. No one else is even trying to build out an ecosystem like Xiaomi with underlying design language. Muji has some nice kitchen stuff/home appliances in Asian market, but they're expanding their portfolio very conservatively. Bonus…

Once I rented a place with a pretty Xiaomi kettle and I'll never forget how I small ants came out from around the round button in the middle of the lid when I turned it on first time. I can't say "well designed" if it is just spamming plastic. In this case design or manufacturing defect ended up with big enough gaps in the plastic for insects to enter and all that space under plastic that is impossible to clean. It's…

Sounds like a dud $10 Mijia 1A with open button on lid - their lowest end model. Others have button on handle.

I don't know any Xiaomi product with wide spread fitment issues, they're value engineered, but well assembled low-medium end consumer goods. Nice plastic, in Xiaomi white or black, occasionally orange accents. As well assembled as any western kit. Most of their kitchen appliance is some sort of knob and plastic covered button, very easy to clean/maintain.

>consistent design language

Less is more Dieter Ram, white/black, simple geometry with rounded edges, round oled display etc. It's very consistent. Especially considering they make nearly everything, from fridges, to cooktops, washing/dryer, to ACs, heaters, vacuums etc.

Ultimately, they look nice, do the thing they do, for fraction of the price, i.e. affordable / actually make decent design available to masses. Bring "design" to low/medium income markets. Which is core to OG ethos/vision of modernism/functionalism.

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#74

Post by maxglute » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:30 PM UTC

myspy wrote: post #66

maxglute wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Xiaomi's household products are also coming into that niche. IMO Xiaomi, more than Apple carries on Braun legacy. Relatively well designed, performant, and accessible (cheap) consumer goods. No one else is even trying to build out an ecosystem like Xiaomi with underlying design language. Muji has some nice kitchen stuff/home appliances in Asian market, but they're expanding their portfolio very conservatively. Bonus…

I've seen the small Muji house last year and thought it would be a nice addition in our garden :D

I'm assuming you saw the "hut", there's a few models.

https://www.muji.com/jp/mujihut/en.html

They have a prefab house as well:

https://www.dezeen.com/2020/01/16/muji-yo-no-ie-prefabricate...

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#75

Post by throwaway290 » Wed, May 08, 2024, 2:08 AM UTC

maxglute wrote: post #73

throwaway290 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I rented a place with a pretty Xiaomi kettle and I'll never forget how I small ants came out from around the round button in the middle of the lid when I turned it on first time. I can't say "well designed" if it is just spamming plastic. In this case design or manufacturing defect ended up with big enough gaps in the plastic for insects to enter and all that space under plastic that is impossible to clean. It's…

Sounds like a dud $10 Mijia 1A with open button on lid - their lowest end model. Others have button on handle. I don't know any Xiaomi product with wide spread fitment issues, they're value engineered, but well assembled low-medium end consumer goods. Nice plastic, in Xiaomi white or black, occasionally orange accents. As well assembled as any western kit. Most of their kitchen appliance is some sort of knob and plas…

You got the model right, yes!

> decent design

it's not "decent design". "Design" is how things work. Button in the lid is bad design, excess poorly fit plastic (which costs some of that $10) is bad design. The kicker here is that it's both bad design and more expensive.

> $10

Where you got that from? Quick search shows $20-30+ in most countries, that is mid range and more than other better budget kettles.

It's even crazier in poorer countries like China or Philippines where $10-$12 is not just "a bit more", it literally buys you two or three kettles with better design (can open lid with single hand) and more capacity.

And that's their lowest end price you say...

Xiaomu is not "bringing decent design to the masses". This is duping "the masses" into spending more money on objectively worse product that they would have to throw away sooner.

> dud

No, other reviews about how button doesn't fully open lid or temperature sensor is off or rust are consistent.

Seriously, it's just a badly put together product with zero innovation and worse quality sold at higher prices than equivalents. That's Xiaomi in my experience

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#76

Post by gnabgib » Wed, May 08, 2024, 2:18 AM UTC

piltdownman wrote: post #72

gnabgib wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tricky to confirm (no need to follow links), but the first hits on Amazon UK[0], Amazon AU[1], Amazon US[2] are clearly labelled Braun in the images. Amazon Germany[3] and Amazon France[4] too. [0]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oral-B-Vitality-Toothbrush-Includin... [1]: https://www.amazon.com.au/Oral-B-SMART-Electric-Rechargeable... [2]: https://www.amazon.com/Oral-B-1000-Rechargeable-Electric-Too... [3]: https://www.am…

Don't use Amazon for reference, use something like Boots and you'll confirm it immediately.

Alright, here you go https://www.boots.com/oral-b-pro-3-3900--black-and-pink-elec...

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#77

Post by maxglute » Wed, May 08, 2024, 9:59 AM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #75

maxglute wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a dud $10 Mijia 1A with open button on lid - their lowest end model. Others have button on handle. I don't know any Xiaomi product with wide spread fitment issues, they're value engineered, but well assembled low-medium end consumer goods. Nice plastic, in Xiaomi white or black, occasionally orange accents. As well assembled as any western kit. Most of their kitchen appliance is some sort of knob and plas…

You got the model right, yes! > decent design it's not "decent design". "Design" is how things work. Button in the lid is bad design, excess poorly fit plastic (which costs some of that $10) is bad design. The kicker here is that it's both bad design and more expensive. > $10 Where you got that from? Quick search shows $20-30+ in most countries, that is mid range and more than other better budget kettles. It's even c…

>That's Xiaomi in my experience

Compare it against entire Xiaomi product portfolio and company history, they sell 100s of millions of products per year across different segments, brand is known for quality : price ratio, like IKEA, which has recalls all the time because some SKUs launch with issues. If you follow coffee drama, plenty of high end 100-200 USD kettle's rust. Duds happen. What do you think makes more sense, your / some people's bad experience with one SKU, likely due bad manufacturing batch VS claim that xiaomi makes bad products? Xiaomi reputation where Xiaomi household goods (not just electronics) are sold has been pretty established in past 10 years - they make mostly good looking (according to taste) products, cheap, accessible, with occasional duds, like most companies. Biggest common complaint, are not manufacturing issues, which happens, but region locking smart products.

>$10 / design

It's offical price on xiaomi PRC, 69 rmb. I've seen it go on sale for $5. You can pay a few bucks more for kettle with button on handle from main Xiaomi line. 1A is "Mijia" - entry level beater kettle, it's fine for what it does - value engineer function/aesthetics for people on budget who also care about looks and are willing to make compromises. So much so that people willing to spend 100-200% premium (big reason why xiaomi popular on aliexpress) for the aesthetics - which is part of design, not just pure functionality. Even Braun/Rams "functionalism" from architectural modernism/functionalism, is as much about APPEARANCE as actual function. Unsurprisingly, a lot of OG functionalist designs, especially in architecutre end up not being very functional. But they do look good. And that's ultimately as / if not more important for people who buy these products. Good design in this context is balancing function and aesthtics and accessbility. Braun/ Xiaomi addresses such needs extra well because they have range of products, i.e. it's obvious 1A button on lid isn't made for single hand function. For people who want more functionality other than a beater kettle for a rental that prioritizes aesthetics/stage dressing, they can buy one of the higher end models.

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#78

Post by tcbawo » Wed, May 08, 2024, 12:00 PM UTC

imp0cat wrote: post #45

tcbawo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a Braun shaver for a very long time — long after the battery had died. It worked great while plugged into the wall, which was fine because I kept it in the bathroom next to an outlet. I switched to a new shaver after receiving one as a gift. I had no idea that modern shavers (maybe most electronics these days?) only run from the battery, rather than passing through from the wall. It’s a reminder of a time befor…

OTOH, not being connected to the mains is probably a lot safer, especially if you use it in the bathroom.

Possibly. Although with GFCI sockets, I was not as concerned.

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#79

Post by DeathArrow » Wed, May 08, 2024, 12:23 PM UTC

moritz wrote: post #14

jrmg wrote: post #5

I’d love to read an account of the ‘fall’ of Braun. Through my adult life, basically the only thing it makes that are still ubiquitous are electric shavers - which are great shavers, but hardly icons of design. Was there internal drama that led to this contraction in the diversity of what they made? Did it happen fast or slow? I feel like there must be a good story in there.

Sold to Gilette in 1967, expansion into many different areas after. Then, I guess their story is not really unique, they shared the fate of all European household appliance manufacturers — increasing competition from Asian companies, so by the 1990s, Braun was dead. After Procter & Gamble bought them in 2005, it now mostly exists as a brand to be licensed (everything other than shaving and electric toothbrushes).

> they shared the fate of all European household appliance manufacturers

Not only household appliance manufacturers but also electronics, mobile phones and whatnot. Philips, Grundig, AEG, Nokia, Bosch are just memories.

Re: Visiting the annual Braun collectors fair

#80

Post by DeathArrow » Wed, May 08, 2024, 12:26 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #29

moritz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sold to Gilette in 1967, expansion into many different areas after. Then, I guess their story is not really unique, they shared the fate of all European household appliance manufacturers — increasing competition from Asian companies, so by the 1990s, Braun was dead. After Procter & Gamble bought them in 2005, it now mostly exists as a brand to be licensed (everything other than shaving and electric toothbrushes).

> [...] they shared the fate of all European household appliance manufacturers — increasing competition from Asian companies, so by the 1990s, Braun was dead. Miele and Bosch etc are still going strong. So I'm not sure what you mean by 'European household appliance manufacturers': they have faced the competition from Asian companies and survived.

> Miele and Bosch etc are still going strong

Bosch AC units are just the brand slapped on products designed and manufactured in Asia by the likes of Gree, TCL and Midea. Probably their washing machines, too.