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Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

blog.redplanetlabs.com

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Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#71

Post by lgrapenthin »

cactusfrog wrote: post #16
metadat wrote: post #2

> Rama can build end-to-end backends at any scale on its own in a tiny fraction of the code. At its core is a new programming language implementing a new programming paradigm.. Grand claims, but where are the super powerful demo apps? The getting started docs are a trickle of info.. https://redplanetlabs.com/docs/~/operating-rama.html#_access... The "demo gallery" has a few cherry picked examples, but I don't see how…

The Clojure community is extremely cult like. I worked with a dev who tried to push Datomic, and despite the huge flaws with his system, and the fact that it was closed source, he would continuously tout how much better it was than a relational database. I don’t believe the hype.

There are no huge flaws with Datomic.

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#72

Post by joeevans1000 »

jimberlage wrote: post #4

Is anyone using Rama at scale? This isn't a complaint about it being closed-source, people have to make their money somehow. But I've seen a lot about Rama's scale when the only things to check the claim are a private beta and a single-process dev build. I'm super curious to hear from people who have tried it for larger projects!

This is... closed source?

Omg. Didn't anyone learn anything from the Datomic story?

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#73

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

epolanski wrote: post #65
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is just not true: I’ve worked on large lisp programs in various situations with minimal documentation and done just fine.

That's not a strong argument. That's like saying world hunger does not exist because you had lasagna for dinner.

How about the existence of major pieces of software written in Common Lisp? For example, American Express fraud detection was and maybe still is done by a CL program. Google Flights uses ITA Software’s CL flight search system. Emacs is widely used and contains a lot of lisp.

I think basically no languages have failed or succeeded for technical reasons: generally, marketing and inertia explains the tech stack better than DX or theoretical superiority.

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#74

Post by thih9 »

joeevans1000 wrote: post #72
jimberlage wrote: post #4

Is anyone using Rama at scale? This isn't a complaint about it being closed-source, people have to make their money somehow. But I've seen a lot about Rama's scale when the only things to check the claim are a private beta and a single-process dev build. I'm super curious to hear from people who have tried it for larger projects!

This is... closed source? Omg. Didn't anyone learn anything from the Datomic story?

What do you mean?

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#76

Post by kazinator »

epolanski wrote: post #28
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those perpetual myths about macros. Ruby on Rails metaprogramming is often harder to debug than macros in Common Lisp. Flink and Spark work by generating and loading Java code at runtime (macros) but, since Java has no language-level support for macros, the generated code is very hard to inspect and debug. What killed most lisps was the AI Winter and the concurrent drying up of DARPA funding.

I don't think I've expressed myself well. When I say software at scale I mean: - going on GitHub opening a file and understanding what's happening - reviewing a PR and figuring out stuff without requiring an ide - having easy onboarding with devs already accustomed to a base language and its patterns Java, C, TypeScript, Scala, Kotlin, etc. Pretty much all major languages offer this: less power but much less ambiguit…

Of all things, did you just lob an accusation of ambiguity at Lisp?
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