Dear Europe, please wake up • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#71

Post by darth_avocado » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:52 PM UTC

tadfisher wrote: post #14

danielvaughn wrote: post #2

I have no idea whether Europeans work harder than Americans, but I do want to say that you can't extrapolate the overall work ethic of America by looking at the SF tech world. It's a very, very small (and very privileged) microcosm of the country.

Couched in the article: > US folks love talking about how hard they work. And honestly with service workers and blue collars I believe it. But not in tech.

> In SF you frequently hear big tech people talking how hard they work, while they queue 30mins for a coffee at Blue Bottle and chitchatting there for another 20mins.

Might be true for an established rest and vest company or position like sales or marketing, but the article seems to be wanting EU to be easier for startups. Not a single startup has that culture, especially when you’re building it from the ground up. You’re most definitely working 1.5-2x the hours as a regular job when it comes to starting a company and making it successful, even as an employee.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#72

Post by 1-more » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:52 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #18

Rich person wants employees to work harder and have a lower quality of life. Somehow I don’t think many people living in the EU want the work/life balance of the US with paltry benefits and no social safety net.

> Rich person wants employees to work harder and have a lower quality of life.

These are not in the article.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#73

Post by febeling » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:52 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #3

I can't scroll this webpage to read it unless I plug my laptop in. Scroll events have a lag time measured in whole seconds, then the page scrolls down by either a fraction of a line or by multiple paragraphs, so I can't keep track of where I was reading. Plugging in my laptop, which changes the power mode, makes the webpage barely usable, but my cooling fans are spun up to full speed now. This is using Chrome on a De…

MBP 2014. Firefox is smooth as can be, opening on Chrome blocks the whole machine.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#74

Post by KronisLV » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:52 PM UTC

devdao wrote: post #34

A reasonable article that proposes 1 EU Corps 2 Standard English language schooling Seems wise enough. What will it take?

I'm surprised that most of the comments seem to focus on other comparisons of EU and US, there's very little on those two points.

Personally, I think that English as the lingua franca makes sense in many contexts, since that's pretty much the case in IT already.

For example, trying to translate various terms in any given language from English usually causes inconvenience and confusion (everyone needs to know the localized version and then translate it back into English to find literature etc.). Therefore, it makes sense to teach everyone English.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#75

Post by lores » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:52 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #52

lycos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen a 3+ month notice to quit in the country I live, curious which country this happens in? Sounds extremely ridiculous if true

My friend in Germany got that and had to pay a large fee to leave early to move to the US.

That's very non-standard. Depending on what 'a large fee' means, it might even be illegal.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#76

Post by braiamp » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:53 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #39

>> If every day is 1% harder for you than your competitor who will win? Your competitor. And in global markets where frequently 1-2 companies become the dominant player in a market this means you will not be a bit smaller. You will fight for scraps. Abandon all hope. The race to the bottom is over. Any country not bowing at the feet of ever tech founder will be relegated to third-world status by the end of the decade…

I see it more as the paragraph after that explains: that EU sells itself as a single market, yet there are different rules depending where in that "single market" you sit. In the US you kinda have the same issue, except that since the US is bigger geographically, you can create hubs that mostly share the same rules.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#77

Post by next_xibalba » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:53 PM UTC

wskinner wrote: post #36

There is a big difference between Europeans in Europe and Europeans in the US - Europeans in the US readily point this out. The idea that Europeans are somehow genetically less suited to building tech companies is an obvious strawman. The reality is that Europeans in America are, like all immigrants, heavily self-selected. The article also does not mention the huge difference in compensation for technology talent bet…

> the huge difference in compensation for technology talent

This isn't a single lever that can be pulled independently. You need highly fluid labor markets that force companies to pay competitive efficiency wages (i.e. fewer/weaker/no unions), competitive and innovative companies, lower regulation and government bureaucratic interference, ambitious and career focused labor force, etc. etc.

It's a chicken-and-egg problem that, at its root, stems from culture (IMHO).

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#78

Post by narag » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:53 PM UTC

When I'm writing this, there's not a single comment that engages with the actual proposals presented in the article. Most commenters are addressing points that the author didn't make or just insulting him.

TL;DR: 1) simplify and uniformize company creation process 2) teach English to everyone.

(I agree, BTW)

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#79

Post by lucianbr » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:53 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #18

Rich person wants employees to work harder and have a lower quality of life. Somehow I don’t think many people living in the EU want the work/life balance of the US with paltry benefits and no social safety net.

> “Europeans don’t work hard enough”

> Eastern Europeans work harder than Americans. Even Italians work more hours than Americans. hours worked

> And based on my experience in the US, I honestly think that the US numbers are overstated.

Did you read the article?

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#80

Post by nvy » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 5:53 PM UTC

bradhe wrote: post #62

Im an American currently living in Europe (Germany). I’ve founded a few companies in the US. I have a project that’s going well, could easily turn into a startup, but I’m not sure I’d found it here—genuinely struggling with it. The way companies fundraise here is a bit weird to me. Much smaller rounds. Also typically thinking smaller in general. Obviously, everything is very commercially focused. In Germany, the work…

>In Germany, the worker protections make operating really quite difficult and it changes the culture of the company, too. Don’t even get me started about on-call culture.

Given how exploitative some US companies are, this sounds wonderful to be honest. The only way I can see this as a negative is if you view your employees as fungible commodities rather than valued team members.