> And they're not even a pointless AI company! Are you sure? (/s), because IBM mentioned "AI" no less than 10 times in their announcement of the purchase: > AI-driven application growth … IBM's deep focus and investment in […] AI … The global excitement surrounding generative AI … HashiCorp's capabilities and talent will create a comprehensive hybrid cloud platform designed for the AI era … generative AI deployment c…
Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
71–80 of 164 posts
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#72I'm glad Jeff pointed out the RMS article on Free software > For the free software movement, however, nonfree software is a social problem, and the solution is to stop using it and move to free software. > “Free software.” “Open source.” If it's the same software (or nearly so), does it matter which name you use? Yes, because different words convey different ideas. While a free program by any other name would give yo…
I have zero idea what this means and I've been on Debian since Woody
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#73There are uses for CLAs besides rug pulls. For example, if you want to offer software as AGPL, accept community contributions, but be able to _also_ offer a non-AGPL option to paying customers (who effectively pay to be allowed to integrate the license without themselves being subject to licensing risk). Quite a few big orgs have a full ban on internal use of AGPL software so this can be very valuable. That requires…
This is abuse of the AGPL and open source in name only.
> I've considered selling exceptions acceptable since the 1990s, and on occasion I've suggested it to companies. Sometimes this approach has made it possible for important programs to become free software.
> [..] [S]elling exceptions permits limited embedding of the code in proprietary software, but the [non-copyleft] X11 license goes even further, permitting unlimited use of the code (and modified versions of it) in proprietary software. If this doesn't make the X11 license unacceptable, it doesn't make selling exceptions unacceptable.
> I consider selling exceptions an acceptable thing for a company to do, and I will suggest it where appropriate as a way to get programs freed.
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#74There are uses for CLAs besides rug pulls. For example, if you want to offer software as AGPL, accept community contributions, but be able to _also_ offer a non-AGPL option to paying customers (who effectively pay to be allowed to integrate the license without themselves being subject to licensing risk). Quite a few big orgs have a full ban on internal use of AGPL software so this can be very valuable. That requires…
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#75I think the anger comes from the rug pull, not that they chose to be source available, right? If they chose to be source available from day 1, then no harm done?
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#76HN title guidelines[0]: If the title includes the name of the site, please take it out, because the site name will be displayed after the link. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've piqued my interest. Can you share more? Do you have a blog post about your product and how you sell it?
See his bio http://www.davisr.me/ I'm actually a paying customer of his RCU software (for managing reMarkable tablet firmware, backups, etc).
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#78There are uses for CLAs besides rug pulls. For example, if you want to offer software as AGPL, accept community contributions, but be able to _also_ offer a non-AGPL option to paying customers (who effectively pay to be allowed to integrate the license without themselves being subject to licensing risk). Quite a few big orgs have a full ban on internal use of AGPL software so this can be very valuable. That requires…
And it would be very convenient for me to be able to relicense an AGPL contributor's work as if it were mine all along, like an evil genius capitalist, tee hee hee :3
But I would fork a project that tried it, and that is the attitude we should encourage.
Those aren't valid reasons for CLAs in my organizations and projects, since they do damage to AGPL as I envision it.
I wonder if there are other reasons for a genuine AGPL radical to support a CLA? Seems AGPL is good enough on its own, and most CLAs just weaken it - both technically and in a spiritual and ethical sense. Could we strengthen it instead?
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#79Hyperscalers like Amazon exploit OSS projects by reselling them as a cloud service and they earn a gigantic sum in the process. But this is not a neutral thing to do - the OSS project is still responsible for maintenance! (And in many places, the "no warranty" clause seems completely disregarded - users and corporations demand bugfixes since it's a "critical library")
The most telling sentence is "Open source culture relies on trust. Trust that companies you and I helped build (even without being on the payroll) wouldn't rugpull."...
where is any trust in exploiting someone's work without giving anything back? the hyperscalers routinely break the OSS social contract, but because they abide to the letter of the licences, they get a free pass and many white knights from even the OSS community and even OSI itself.
A business model of "you can see the source, you can modify it but you can't offer it as a service or resell my work" is much more honest and trustworthy than the "develop a library, a cloud service picks it up then pressures you with PRs and issues until you permanently burn out from the whole thing"
This is partly addressed by the post - "But you know what? I'd just prefer honesty. If revenue is so dependent on selling software, just... make the software proprietary. Don't be so coy!".
This is not honesty though. Claiming that anything not party-approved.... I mean OSI-approved is not open source and it's proprietary is a very myopic thing. For users and developers, it's much more beneficial if they can see or even modify the source even if they don't have an unrestricted right to use and modify it however they want. This absolutist, black-and-white approach could potentially lead to many pieces of software becoming fully proprietary, all-rights-reserved in the future since the open source community harasses source available projects quite frequently, and not many have the patience to put up with that. And that would be a sad outcome indeed for user freedom, repairability, portability and other values RMS and the FSF dearly holds.
Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead
#80I'm glad Jeff pointed out the RMS article on Free software > For the free software movement, however, nonfree software is a social problem, and the solution is to stop using it and move to free software. > “Free software.” “Open source.” If it's the same software (or nearly so), does it matter which name you use? Yes, because different words convey different ideas. While a free program by any other name would give yo…
"What we advocate is not “open source,” and what we oppose is not “closed source.” I have zero idea what this means and I've been on Debian since Woody
1. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
2. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....