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Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

fortune.com

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Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#71

Post by jackcosgrove »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #38
bko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Waymo pricing compared to Uber or other ride share? I originally thought autonomous cars would greatly reduce costs but considering the tens of billions dumped into these companies, they can't charge lower prices as they have to recoup investments.

It's a dollar or two more expensive than the corresponding Uber (non-shared) fare in my experience, so a bit less after tips. Keep in mind that the "true" price of these services probably isn't the biggest pricing factor right now. The cost is a way to manage demand, get some additional income, and investigate what the market will bear.

I wonder if anyone has done an analysis looking at a set of tasks and ordering them according to the ease of automating them compared to the cost of labor.

Self-driving cars seem like a poor choice of market, since the task is very complex and there are also many people worldwide who are willing to work as drivers.

The sweet spot would be a task that is easy to automate and also doesn't have much human competition. Obviously the OG automation case of assembly lines fits this. LLMs can occupy this space since there are probably more people who can drive a car than can write grammatically correct natural language. I would put self-driving trains in this category as well but that's an outsider's perspective.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#72

Post by herewego »

surfingdino wrote: post #15
kuschku wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mercedes takes all legal responsibility for any accidents caused during autonomous operation. So far, autonomous operation is limited to relatively few situations, but most importantly it includes traffic jams (which is where human drivers quickly lose focus).

> "all legal responsibility" I have a feeling there is enough small print to allow them to wiggle out of most situations.

They are opening themselves up to massive liability even with “fine print” — this is meaningful and should not be disregarded. Just because there’s some super indem clause in their customer agreement doesn’t mean the courts will rule in its favor and not strike it out.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#73

Post by dandy23 »

tempestn wrote: post #60
homefree wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is amazing and has fully replaced Uber for me in SF. They're also expanding to the entire peninsula from SF down to Cupertino - you're out of date on this. Waymo driving in SF is way better than human. It's not timid either. This Mercedes post is marketing - it's not really what people consider autonomous given the constraints. > "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain cond…

It's not useless, but it's a very specific use case: commuting in rush hour traffic.

And that's a very annoying condition to drive under. So quite useful.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#74

Post by jeffbee »

ra7 wrote: post #49
bko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Waymo pricing compared to Uber or other ride share? I originally thought autonomous cars would greatly reduce costs but considering the tens of billions dumped into these companies, they can't charge lower prices as they have to recoup investments.

In addition to what others have said about pricing, you need to compare Waymo with Uber Black, not UberX or shared rides. Waymo says they are aiming to be a premium service because the cars (Jaguar I-pace) are much nicer and, of course, there’s the novelty of not having a driver.

Uber has sent me cars that did not have tires, wipers, or headlights. The fact that Waymo sends you a roadworthy car is, by itself, worth $5 per trip.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#75

Post by RaftPeople »

BoorishBears wrote: post #65
ra7 wrote: post #57

It operates under such specific conditions, it’s not very useful right now. Unless you spend a large part of your commute on clogged California highways, there’s not a big use case. But Mercedes would be hoping to expand that operational design domain (ODD). Ultimately, I don’t think their L3 technology is the groundbreaking part (I think they use Nvidia Drive). It’s that they are willing to take liability inside the…

I work on AVs and this is a) incredibly useful b) the future of self-driving L3 is 100% the groundbreaking part because it's when the manufacturer has to take liability and it's where people can actually afford it. I believe in the technology "trickling up" for L3 much more than I believe tech in our million dollar robotaxis trickling down to consumer vehicles.

I agree with you, it seems like it's the most valuable first step. Just eliminating the daily rear-end collisions during commute would be a huge step forward.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#76

Post by ra7 »

bhauer wrote: post #64
homefree wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is amazing and has fully replaced Uber for me in SF. They're also expanding to the entire peninsula from SF down to Cupertino - you're out of date on this. Waymo driving in SF is way better than human. It's not timid either. This Mercedes post is marketing - it's not really what people consider autonomous given the constraints. > "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain cond…

> "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology. called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. Drivers can focus on other activities until the vehicle alerts them to resume control. The technology does not work on roads that haven't been pre-approved by Mercedes, includ…

> The difference between SAE Level 3 versus Level 2 is liability, not functionality. Conceptually, it would be relatively simple to create a Level 3 system that only worked in parking lots and never drove over 5 MPH. And yes, such a system would be "Level 3," which naively sounds better than "Level 2" because the number is higher.

No one’s going to take liability if their technology is not ready for the conditions they want to work in. And no one’s creating systems that only work in 5 mph parking lots just to claim the L3 title. So comparison to hypothetical systems aren’t useful.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#77

Post by bhauer »

prng2021 wrote: post #17

"Drivers can activate Mercedes’s technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph." This is not what people think of when they see a headline like this. It's just a bunch of PR bs.

Exactly. As a mental exercise, people should consider how broad or narrow the functional domain needs to be for Level 3 (liability assumed by manufacturer) to be truly of note versus Level 2 (liability remains with owner).

Would a Level 3 system that only navigates parking lots at up to 5 MPH be notable versus a Level 2 system that drove everywhere? For me, a very narrow Level 3 system like Mercedes' is absolutely less interesting versus a very broad Level 2 system like Tesla's. The technical capability of Tesla's system is substantial. How important is taking liability, really, to the bigger picture of increasing the technical capability of autonomy? A narrow Level 3 system is not an entirely empty milestone, of course, but compared to the actual work of increasing driving capability, assuming liability seems like a game played primarily by deploying lawyers, not programmers.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#79

Post by thibran »

tempestn wrote: post #54
thibran wrote: post #47

A PR lie. Watch a Tesla FSD 12.3.4 video, then one of Mercedes and see for yourself.

Tesla requires the driver to pay attention to the road at all times, even with "FSD". (And having tried it, you would definitely want to do so.) This system does not have that requirement, on roads where it's supported. What's the lie?

They are misleading the public in thinking that Mercedes is a leader in autonomous driving, but they are not. They are, including all other legacy car companies, so far behind Tesla, that they should be ashamed.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#80

Post by cbb330 »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #52
paxys wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering there are grand total of 65 cars available for sale, it's obvious that the company is still testing the waters. There's no reason to do a massive PR push until they are ready and can scale production.

Those 65 cars could easily be >10% of all new S classes available on dealer lots in the two states, the majority of customers order custom made or order special chauffer variants.

Agreed, as I’m familiar as a buyer and with friends who work at MBUSA in dealer inventory.
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