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Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

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Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#71

Post by chii »

hot_gril wrote: post #48
orbital-decay wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of a free for all bug abusing server is pretty neat, a whole ‘nother level of the game. Balance converging around bugs and exploits is pretty typical for all PvP sandbox games with cutthroat gameplay, even if not allowed by the server. ARK: Survival Evolved and Eve Online are infamous for having huge clans (thousands of players) willing to go extreme lengths at metagaming and bug exploitation. It isn't alw…

The problem is, the optimal hacks usually don't make the game fun. It becomes a war of attrition.

> don't make the game fun

the fun is no longer the game in an anarchy server. It's in beating other play's strategies - which actually makes it quite close to a real war in the physical world.

For example, the 2b2t minecraft wars between factions involve logistics, misinformation and intelligence (such as spies, fakes etc). It's no longer just minecraft. But that's what makes it fun and interesting.

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#72

Post by nottorp »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #20
cedws wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't played Minecraft for many years but I'd argue the way it's supposed to be play is an old version from like 10 years ago with a tech modpack like Tekkit. Back then, there were open servers where communities built cities with no grief prevention because people trusted each other.

To be fair, there are still servers like that. Last week I was on the largest ReIndev mod server, beautiful architecture for as long as you walked, none protected by any means

Fully unprotected is a lot of work for the mods when the occasional griefer does find the server.

Easier to have some form of land ownership/permission system for builds.

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#73

Post by Filligree »

marshray wrote: post #52
saagarjha wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bug in how Minecraft does things, not a bug in the generator itself (which has long been known to be vulnerable to such things).

If "random" implies "contains no information", then it is indeed a bug in anything calling itself a "random number generator". But that's just my opinion. The world is free to use the word however it wants.

“Random” means something closer to “contains maximal information”…

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#74

Post by eru »

eru wrote: post #67
alickz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised they don't use some form of hardware based RNG. I assume there's many good reasons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_random_number_generat...

They wanted to show that they didn't cheat. In general, you can pick a random seed at the start of the day, commit to it somewhere (eg publish a hash of it on the bitcoin blockchain, or just on your website), then use that seed in a cryptographically secure PRNG on your website all day, and at the end of the day you publish the seed you already committed to. This way people can check that you didn't cheat, but can't…

(The above was simplified. In a game of poker, you also want to make sure that when hands get folded, that no one learns what the cards were.)

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#75

Post by teekert »

timdierks wrote: post #23
dzdt wrote: post #9

Back in 1999-2000 there was an "International RoShamBo Programming Competition" [1] where computer bots competed in the game of rock-paper-scissors. The baseline bot participant just selected its play randomly, which is a theoretically unbeatable strategy. One joke entry to the competition was carefully designed to beat the random baseline ... by reversing the state of the random number generator and then predicting…

That's me! Thanks for pulling up the quote from long ago: > "With his obvious technical skill, and his "cheat early and often" attitude, Tim could have a promising career as an AI programmer in the computer games industry. :)" Instead took a path of security, authoring the TLS RFC and principal engineer in Google security. Thanks for the flashback.

You pulled a Kobayashi Maru when you got the chance. I bow to thee.

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#76

Post by ben_bai »

lxe wrote: post #30

The video on this is amazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMpMOnIJDE . I had no idea how sophisticated the community was.

Yeah the Minecraft and MC anarchy community is insane.

If you found this amazing, take a look at this, it'll blow your mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6py9q46QU and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaRurhiK-Lk

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#77

Post by immibis »

dzogchen wrote: post #18

I loved playing on 2b2t, until it got too popular all of the sudden when a YouTuber did a video on it. 2b2t (an anarchy servers in genral) are Minecraft the way it is meant to be played.

I assure you Notch did not mean to make a game of RNG reverse engineering.

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#78

Post by le-mark »

shthed wrote: post #62
timdierks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's me! Thanks for pulling up the quote from long ago: > "With his obvious technical skill, and his "cheat early and often" attitude, Tim could have a promising career as an AI programmer in the computer games industry. :)" Instead took a path of security, authoring the TLS RFC and principal engineer in Google security. Thanks for the flashback.

Can you share the source to Nostradamus?

Or a write up on the algorithm used? How did knowledge of the prngs of the impact the impl?

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#79

Post by smithcoin »

Leijurv, did you do any collaboration with Matt Bolan or did you guys independently discover this? I can only imagine the power of your two minds combined. Loved the video. Also laughed when I found out you named baritone for fit’s voice.

Re: Randar: A Minecraft exploit that uses LLL lattice reduction to crack server RNG

#80

Post by konstantinua00 »

rhaps0dy wrote: post #28
dzdt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole commentary about the "supermodified" class of competition entrants is making my laugh: > Nostradamus was written by Tim Dierks, a VP of Engineering at Certicom, who has a lot of expertise in cryptography. The program defeats the optimal player by reverse-engineering the internal state of the random() generator, which he states "was both easier and harder than I thought it would be". To be sporting, it then…

I was very curious about the Psychic Friends Network. One can find the code here ( https://github.com/MrValdez/Roshambo/blob/master/rsb-iocaine... ), and it's easy to deobfuscate substantially by running it through the C preprocessor. I believe it works as follows: - It plays randomly for the first 998 turns ( https://github.com/MrValdez/Roshambo/blob/master/rsb-iocaine... ): this line is "if (*turn - In the last 2 t…

so parallel universes lost to rewriting history

amazing

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