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Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

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Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#71

Post by CobrastanJorji »

andjd wrote: post #15

One important thing to know is that the venues/artists often get a kickback of part of the Ticketmaster fees. In other words, the artists, venues, producers, and Ticketmaster are in cahoots to fleece fans for as much money as possible, and Ticketmaster is willing to play the 'bad guy' and take the blame for high prices, and they get to keep a bigger slice of the overall pie than they would in a highly competitive mar…

Yes, but also, many of those venues ARE Ticketmaster. From the Ascend Ampitheatre in Nashville to the Gorge in Washington, Live Nation owns like 150 major and minor concert venues. They're often kicking back to themselves.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#73

Post by viraptor »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #68

The only relevant monopoly for a Taylor Swift concert is Taylor Swift. Fans would use any platform to buy to tickets for any venue in any city.

True in theory, but because of exclusivity deals with venues, they can't use "any venue". Basically at the level of Taylor Swift, she would have to create her own arenas for this to work. She could well do it one day though...

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#74

Post by calgoo »

So in my opinion, the fans suing ticketmaster should sue Taylor Swift for using ticket master. Then she can sue her music company for doing business with ticket master. its not like selling tickets is not a solved problem, so why are we even bothering with this BS and just not using another service? O the music labels like them because they get sweet deals? Well again, sue Taylor Swift and the label, not the shitty ticket sales company.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#75

Post by flightster »

voisin wrote: post #66
flightster wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds identical to health insurers. We need a new word for this arrangement. “Cartel” probably comes the closest but doesn’t feel quite right. It’s like a cartel but it’s lead by one “extractor” (front of house, Ticketmaster in this case).

“Cartel” doesn’t preclude a single leader. See: Escobar et al.

You are right, but in in his "cartel", everyone was working for him. Kind of a monarchy. I feel these cartels are more of an actual oligarchy where each player has a separate role that gives it power instead of just reporting up to Pablo.

Taking the insurance example you have the "suppliers" (doctors, drug companies and device companies), the "venue" (hospital) and the "extractor" (insurer).

Similarly you have the "suppliers" (musicians), the "venue" (the venue I guess) and the "extractor" (Live Nation and Ticketmaster). No obvious mapping to the record labels, recording studios or (biggest of all) streamers but hopefully some similarities are present.

I feel like Escobar, the Sinaloa Cartel, etc, are much more top-down.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#76

Post by freedomben »

methodical wrote: post #67

My horror story of Ticketmaster; I recently bought standing-room-only tickets on short notice ( I reached out to support for assistance, and after several days of wasted time and run-around, they finally sent my issue to their engineering team saying they'd get back to me in 5 business days. Keep in mind I said I bought these tickets a week before the event, and they'd already wasted a few days giving me the run-arou…

> I attempted to charge back the purchase since they did not provide what I paid for (tickets I could sell), and they fought me and won somehow.

This has happened to me twice now (though not with TicketMaster) and I was 100% in the right, and I lost. When I mentioned it on HN I was met with a lot of doubters. I think something has really changed regarding chargebacks.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#77

Post by paxys »

While I 100% support this action, I feel like people are going to be disappointed to find that if/when the dust settles and Live Nation is reined in (big if), tickets for the Taylor Swift concert or the NBA finals aren't suddenly coming down to $50. With a growing population, people with more disposable income and more interest in such events in general the fundamental economy of live events is very different than what it was 30 years ago. The sticker price is usually very close to the market value of the ticket, and often a lot less (hence all the scalping).

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#78

Post by busterarm »

seatac76 wrote: post #5

Finally. Between the market dominance via Live Nation and Ticketmaster merge. The venue exclusivity contracts they insist upon. They are a grotesque monopoly.

They are but the DoJ is getting involved 30 years too late.

They crushed all of the meaningful competition that long ago. Even breaking the company up into parts wouldn't suddenly fix the industry.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#79

Post by calgoo »

voidwtf wrote: post #64
andjd wrote: post #15

One important thing to know is that the venues/artists often get a kickback of part of the Ticketmaster fees. In other words, the artists, venues, producers, and Ticketmaster are in cahoots to fleece fans for as much money as possible, and Ticketmaster is willing to play the 'bad guy' and take the blame for high prices, and they get to keep a bigger slice of the overall pie than they would in a highly competitive mar…

If I understand correctly Ticketmaster is still the one creating this problem, they demand exclusivity in their contracts which often means the venue has no choice if they want to participate in a large enough market to continue operating. Similarly artists have trouble securing large venues if not participating in their scheme. This is the problem with most 'monopolies', they reach a certain critical mass where they…

Taylor swift is big enough that she could build a venue in each location if she wanted, so that not an issue. If Taylor and a few other large artists gave the middle finger to ticketmaster and basically created their own ticket system, i promise you that they would have enough pull to basically solve this. However, like you said, thats not in their or their labels interest.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#80

Post by methodical »

freedomben wrote: post #76
methodical wrote: post #67

My horror story of Ticketmaster; I recently bought standing-room-only tickets on short notice ( I reached out to support for assistance, and after several days of wasted time and run-around, they finally sent my issue to their engineering team saying they'd get back to me in 5 business days. Keep in mind I said I bought these tickets a week before the event, and they'd already wasted a few days giving me the run-arou…

> I attempted to charge back the purchase since they did not provide what I paid for (tickets I could sell), and they fought me and won somehow. This has happened to me twice now (though not with TicketMaster) and I was 100% in the right, and I lost. When I mentioned it on HN I was met with a lot of doubters. I think something has really changed regarding chargebacks.

They most definitely have some BS in the fine print about how they're not responsible for their awful system, as CYA for things like this. Truly scum of the earth.
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