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EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

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Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#71

Post by thereddaikon »

cyberpunk wrote: post #51
throwaway63467 wrote: post #7

Hybrids were mostly a tax scam in my opinion. In Germany until recently you could get a 6,000-8,000 € subsidy on these cars and when leasing them through a company you got a really nice tax reduction from 1% of the list price to 0,25 %, which amounts to several thousand Euros per year as well. Not to forget the vehicle tax was drastically reduced as well. Overall mostly very affluent people bought these cars, and the…

This is the same Germany who recently “halved” their plastic waste numbers by attaching milk bottle caps to the actual bottles so they’re counted as a single piece of waste instead of two… None of it is about the environment.

The same Germany where the "Green party" pushed to close nuclear power plants and buy more gas from the Russians. Truly clown world.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#72

Post by stuaxo »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #59

Don't plug in hybrids typically have a 20-30 mile range on the battery? Unless I have a dedicated garage for my car it just sounds like a huge faff. The cost savings for plugging it in vs. fuelling it are probably something like 50 pence, and the only time I'm ever going to do that would be dangling a cable from a window if I manage to park outside the house.

No lampposts with charging where you are ?

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#73

Post by FinnKuhn »

wongarsu wrote: post #23
sp332 wrote: post #4

"these vehicles are currently not realizing their potential, largely because they are not being charged and driven fully electrically as frequently as assumed" That's crazy to me, gasoline is so much more expensive than electricity, why wouldn't people charge the batteries more often?

At least in Germany a lot of them are company cars. As in a car used by one specific employee for official and private uses alike, but paid by the company as part of the compensation. The employee might not have had a say in choosing a PHEV and might not be paying for the gasoline either.

there are also companies that give you a card to pay for refuelling your car, but to charge it you would have to pay yourself - guess what people do...

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#74

Post by jajko »

jfim wrote: post #30
rkalla wrote: post #20

350% more _than assumed_ (because people drive them like hybrids and don't charge them) They aren't inherently more polluting.

> They aren't inherently more polluting. They could be though, the additional battery on PHEVs is heavy.

Lets not forget manufacturing process, these engines are way more complex. Also more resources over the lifespan into maintenance.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#75

Post by izacus »

vel0city wrote: post #63
izacus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get these kinds of arguments. Even if rural areas still use cars, reducing pollution in urban areas (the ones, you know, most populated) still brings massive improvements to everyone (if nothing else, the ruralites aren't stuck in traffic as much when they inevitably commute into cities) and has very measureable health benefits for everyone in the cities. Where does this silly idea that "let's use more public…

"Urban" in the US doesn't mean a dense city where mass transit makes sense. Loads of areas in the US are "urban" but due to design are practically entirely car dependent. Houses are in seas of single family homes with large lots. Stores are islands separated by massive parking lots. Bolting on a bus service to those designs means driving tons of empty busses (lots of different routes because things are everywhere ) a…

To be posts like yours sound like you actually are saying you shouldn't do mass transit - they're always full of excuses and reasons to delay, avoid and not move on it. You seem to reduce someone saying "let's do mass transit" to "let's buy more busses" and then argue against it.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#76

Post by lorax »

katsura wrote: post #18
sp332 wrote: post #4

"these vehicles are currently not realizing their potential, largely because they are not being charged and driven fully electrically as frequently as assumed" That's crazy to me, gasoline is so much more expensive than electricity, why wouldn't people charge the batteries more often?

I made some back-of-the-napkin calculations, and based on the electric range and outside charging prices it didn't seem like electric cars are really that much cheaper. The only time they clearly come out on top is when you can charge them at home at off peak hours, at least around here. PHEVs are in an even worse situation because even though they have a small battery, they need to be charged for quite some time, so…

DC Fast charging prices are usually quite high (45-50 c/kwh and may well be near the cost of gas, but not all PHEV's support that. Level 2 charging is usually much cheaper (20-30 c/kwh) though slower. So if you can charge at one of those (such as at work) it also works out to be cheaper than gas.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#77

Post by DarkNova6 »

kristo wrote: post #67
DarkNova6 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it depends on where you are living. While cars in urban areas are a definite luxury, not having a car is the luxury outside of cities. No amount of incentives and enhancements of public transportation will ever fix this issue for sparsely populated areas. You can try to reduce exhausts and travel distances with car, but you can't fight car ownership. My parents live in such an area and they can commute…

Living in a sparsely populated area is the luxury here. You can live somewhere rural, somewhere small, but still within biking distance of everything you need daily and within train or bus of weekly needs.

I'm afraid missing the nuances of people's livelihood is exactly the point I tried to make:

> If you ignore the needs of those people, you only strengthen political forces who also support big oil. There needs to be a middle ground.

How are you even transporting your weekly groceries without a car? What if you have family? And do you also use your bike during heavy rain/winter/strong heat? It just doesn't work in practice.

Virtually nobody moves to rural areas. People have been living there for generations. You can't expect them to mass-migrate somewhere else you must address their needs. If people have the impression that nobody supports them, you get extremists.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#78

Post by Ringz »

sofixa wrote: post #56
cyberpunk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same Germany who recently “halved” their plastic waste numbers by attaching milk bottle caps to the actual bottles so they’re counted as a single piece of waste instead of two… None of it is about the environment.

> This is the same Germany who recently “halved” their plastic waste numbers by attaching milk bottle caps to the actual bottles so they’re counted as a single piece of waste instead of two… Do you have any sources discussing this? Most waste numbers I've seen from France (where I live) and the EU are in volume or weight, neither of which will be affected by the caps remaining attached to bottles (which is an EU-wide…

That is simply a lie. And these are probably accounts for opinion making. It is an EU-wide regulation from 2019, which is now being implemented by all EU states [0]. In addition, the way in which plastic waste is counted is also prescribed throughout the EU [1].

[0]: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/904/oj [1]: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#79

Post by robertlagrant »

klaustopher wrote: post #66
robertlagrant wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me that's a really weird analogy. Nobody would think about putting a gasoline tank and pump in their garage That's because we don't need to. ICE is predicated on filling up every 1-4 weeks. EV is predicated on charging overnight. > There's plenty of public charging infrastructure in Europe. Fast charging on the highways, slow charging in living areas. But..where do you charge overnight? That's what the previous…

You leave your car parked outside at a slow 22kW charger. But with a full BEV, you don't need to charge every night, just like you don't need to fill up your gasoline car every evening in your own garage.

> But with a full BEV, you don't need to charge every night, just like you don't need to fill up your gasoline car every evening in your own garage.

Not just like. I can fill up my car in 5 minutes and it lasts 1-4 weeks. That's why I don't need to fill it up every night.

That's not the case with PHEVs, or even, I believe, BEVs.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#80

Post by Ringz »

FinnKuhn wrote: post #70
cyberpunk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same Germany who recently “halved” their plastic waste numbers by attaching milk bottle caps to the actual bottles so they’re counted as a single piece of waste instead of two… None of it is about the environment.

my milk bottle caps (in Germany) are not attached to anything?

They are. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40039932
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